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February 06, 2012, 11:01:08 PM
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The Nix Parking Lot Re: Rick Needham's Gif - A Second Car?  (Read 23621 times)

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I noticed this second car immediately on looking at Rick's latest gif in the JFK Bonus Materials thread.
Given the unknown then and now variables, I am still not convinced that we are not seeing the car as I have illustrated in the other thread.
I now see a second darker car near the first white colored car. The shadows coming from the car appear to be consistent with the direction of shadows cast on Nov 22nd 1963.
I have made an illustration using the last frame from Rick's animation, which to me appears to show a second car.
I'm reminded of the old saying..If it looks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Flies like a Duck, then it probably is a Duck.
In this case, we appear to have 2 Ducks, neither of them being lame.



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« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 05:21:48 AM by Duncan MacRae »

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For all of those, who didn't followed the original thread where this issue is originated
at first here the link:

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I came to the conclusion, that a car wheel from Nix position behind the fence in the parking lot from 1963
, based on my CAD evidence is impossible to see.

I cutted in CAD straight through Dealey Plaza from the Nix location to the point where the black dot is positioned and
extended the cut to the parking lot until the angle meets a wheel in sight (the upper part of a wheel).
All that based on the Drommer&Associates Survey Map for the HSCA from 1978.





Let's take a look in into the parking lot in 1963/64, the Warren Commission Exhibit 2118.



We can see here the possibilities of how a car can taken place.
Following the angle from Nix's position through the black dot (head) you can see in the last image where this
car can had positioned at last place before the rails didn't allow a parking anymore.
This is a distance of 45-50 yards maximum.

That distance did not allow a wheel to be in sight from the Nix position.
It's all a question of geometry and angles.
Nix lense height have to be 10-11 feet high to make that possible.
The fence was 5 feet high.....yes also in 1963. Take a look at the photographs.
Give it some inches +/-. That does not make the difference.

The only possibilty a car wheel from Nix position can have be in sight is some 105 yards behind the fence
based on Nix's height of 6 feet. This is way beyond of any possibilty. Given the scale of a car and also terrain/geography situation there.

Back to the Nix film /frames.
I'am sure everybody knows Elm street has a downward slope of 3-3.25° towards the mouth of the underpass also at the embankment.
The Nix film gives the impression Elm has an upwards slope.
That depends on the tilting and how Nix had hold the camera.

Here one Nix frame and how it would look if the camera would be holded straight.



The tilt of Nix camera can lead to missinterpretations.

About the photograph from Chris Davidson.
Yes Rick, it was slightly too much west located and also the film and therefore a bit too down because Main makes also a downward slope.

But thank you Chris!!
I appreciate it really much when people coming forward and doing some own made, intending constructive research instead of
always debunking trying statements.

At last here a photograph not from the Nix location, but from a similar height position.
It should give a good impression how the parking lot and cars would look like from that location.





Yes, yesterday was a rainy day in Dallas, Gary. I've seen that on the Plaza webcam.
I hope you do it at some point when the weather and the cars there allows it.
Thank you for your efforts.

Martin


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Insipired by the Movie "Invictus" and Nelson Mandela.
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Martin, the picture which you uploaded, by coincidence, appears to show a car with its wheel showing, and  in a similar position to the alleged car in Nix.
I can't get a good clear blowup of the pic, but this is what I see.




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« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 11:18:42 AM by Duncan MacRae »

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Just a comparison using "thee" frame Nix 093, and what was in Nix's FOV. This shows us just how much of the car park would have been visible through the zoomed in movie camera lens of Nix.



Rick


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« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 11:40:46 AM by Rick Needham »

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Duncan please take a look around.
Are you see the black dots all around?

All wheels?

And the location of whatever, is the corner of the picket fence.
The photographer was located not at the Nix location as i told.

Martin


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Martin, the picture which you uploaded, by coincidence, appears to show a car with its wheel showing, and  in a similar position to the alleged car in Nix.
I can't get a good clear blowup of the pic, but this is what I see.





Duncan,


Not to disagree, but the car & wheel (?) you point to in your blowup....

1. Is not within the Nix FOV. Your car is too far off what would have been Nix's right (see the photo I just attached to my previous posting).

2. When I enlarge the photo on my computer here by a factor of 5X, we DO see people around the pergola shelter. What's to say the wheel you see may actually be the head of someone walking through the car park area somewhere between the fence and the car?


Rick


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« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 11:35:32 AM by Rick Needham »

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From Gary Mack

Duncan,
 
Good news and bad.  We've had heavy thunderstorms on and off all day, and it was pouring when I left the office.  I didn't go to the Nix spot, and when I got to our parking lot behind the fence, all the cars but one pickup truck had left the area behind the fence.
 
So while today's test may not have been definitive, I could tell that the top part of the truck was higher than the top of the fence.  Since trucks were somewhat taller in the 60s, I have to assume that some vehicles probably could have been seen above the fence in the Nix film.
 
Gary

I'am convinced that is absolutely possible to see the top of a car/truck from Nix position.
But we are talking here about a wheel of a car, which lower is located.

Gary knows what he is talking about. He would have mentioned a "wheel"?

Martin



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Martin & Rick

"At last here a photograph not from the Nix location, but from a similar height position"

I realise completely that it is not a Nix recreation. I am only pointing out to both of you that cars are showing in your photograph from a similar camera height to that of Nix, and that what I have shown could possibly be a wheel. Until we get a real good recreation, we will never know for sure.


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« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 11:49:11 AM by Duncan MacRae »

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Martin my friend,


I agree with you totally. The top of a car or truck visible from Nix's location yes. But as for a wheel, no. Not possible, unless that car or truck were parked way out on the railroad tracks...in which case that car or truck would appear considerably smaller.

And thank you for all your hard work in my defense here  :)  Excellent work!


Rick


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we will never know for sure.

Sure will we know yet, no doubt.

Martin


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« Last Edit: April 19, 2009, 11:50:29 AM by Martin Hinrichs »

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well, i know originally i said it could have been a wheel of the car. but, if Martin and Rick believe otherwise, i'll take another look. if Gary doesn't get a good pick from Nix location with a cars. i'll try myself soon. just something else to do in Dallas Martin...


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well, i know originally i said it could have been a wheel of the car. but, if Martin and Rick believe otherwise, i'll take another look. if Gary doesn't get a good pick from Nix location with a cars. i'll try myself soon. just something else to do in Dallas Martin...

Thank you my friend.

It is not that i will debunk Duncans observations, but it's definitely not possible.
It's the truth. You can believe me. I hope so.

Martin


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I'm sure most people on the forum will recognize Bicubic smoother. You can find it in PhotoShop and you can get more information in general by searching for photo interpolation in google. The process of saving as gifs after resizing may account for what you believe is a loss of quality.  If it's a problem there's a simple solution. Post your gifs but include the last three frames and the fence area you've edited out. Then we'll all be able to see clearly!

You're wrong about Nix. Frames 94, 95 and 96 show the area of the "head" pop (but no head). I can post them if you like but if you check your files I'm sure you'll see that the "head" area doesn't leave Nix until frame 97.

Jerry

Ok Jerry start a poll and you will recognize most people did not heard anything about a "Bicubic" filter.
It is in most image processing software standard.
Not just Photoshop.

You use Photoshop CS2 or higher. Correct?
In Photoshop 7 for instance it was not possible to use a smooth bicubic filter. Just the standard one.
I hope you aware of it.

For sure, the processing to a GIF goes to a loss in quality. Everybody knows i think.
Thats the reason why Chris Davidson (you admire) always use Quicktime.

At last my dear, i will show the difference between a smooth bicubic enhancement in PS CS2 and and the the software Rick Needham used.

Take a close look!

This is your version of enhancement:



and this is Ricks version of enhancement:



What a difference.

Your so called "enhancement" works not so convincing....obviously.
Try it by your own. And please show it. And not again be quit after a not adequate assumption.


How do i come to that?


Take a look at here:

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Your answer was left.  Having no answers and leave it blank?

Is this your way to go?
Debunking everythink you may feel?

I'am going to watching you now.

Martin



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« Last Edit: April 20, 2009, 12:30:42 AM by Martin Hinrichs »

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