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 April 18, 2009, 01:16:36 AM
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I noticed this second car immediately on looking at Rick's latest gif in the JFK Bonus Materials thread. Given the unknown then and now variables, I am still not convinced that we are not seeing the car as I have illustrated in the other thread. I now see a second darker car near the first white colored car. The shadows coming from the car appear to be consistent with the direction of shadows cast on Nov 22nd 1963. I have made an illustration using the last frame from Rick's animation, which to me appears to show a second car. I'm reminded of the old saying..If it looks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Flies like a Duck, then it probably is a Duck. In this case, we appear to have 2 Ducks, neither of them being lame. 
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« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 05:21:48 AM by Duncan MacRae »
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January 06, 2012, 11:54:51 PM
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Hi Rick,
No, I'm saying that this car looks to be at approximately the same angle as the "car" in Nix.
Duncan I also reckon it's a car. What else out in that dirty carpark would reflect a big block of yellow anyway?  And if you look closely the roof of the car in the carpark is white as in this pic. The lighting is consistent with the shape of a car, i.e the front right quarter panel is darker underneath. 
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January 07, 2012, 04:04:21 AM
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John Mytton: Duncan
I also reckon it's a car.
What else out in that dirty carpark would reflect a big block of yellow anyway?
And if you look closely the roof of the car in the carpark is white as in this pic.
The lighting is consistent with the shape of a car, i.e the front right quarter panel is darker underneath. First, let's have a closer look at Nix frame N093 John. Note Orville Nix's FOV (field of view)  Now John, let's have a look at a circa 1967 aerial view of Dealey Plaza. I've located Nix's position with the red dot on Main Street and where he filmed from. There's not a whole lot of parking lot in the frame. Note the configuration of the parked cars in the parking lot John. That's pretty much how they parked back in the day. Also note the locations of the railroad tracks. I've also added a set of blue lines for you. This represents the slice of the parking lot YOUR car must occupy if it is a car...which it is NOT. Now Mr. Know It All, mark on this aerial photograph the location of YOUR car, AND its angular position for me please that matches Nix frame 093. And do keep in mind, it needs to be the correct distance away from the fence line to be seen by Nix and the way YOU say that car is there. I'll be waiting......  ***Here is the ORIGINAL TOPIC I had began back in early 2009, before this topic was started by Duncan***As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 05:05:30 AM by Rick Needham »
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But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people- John F. Kennedy
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January 07, 2012, 06:00:25 AM
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John Mytton: First, let's have a closer look at Nix frame N093 John. Note Orville Nix's FOV (field of view) Now John, let's have a look at a circa 1967 aerial view of Dealey Plaza. I've located Nix's position with the red dot on Main Street and where he filmed from. There's not a whole lot of parking lot in the frame. Note the configuration of the parked cars in the parking lot John. That's pretty much how they parked back in the day. Also note the locations of the railroad tracks. I've also added a set of blue lines for you. This represents the slice of the parking lot YOUR car must occupy if it is a car...which it is NOT. Now Mr. Know It All, mark on this aerial photograph the location of YOUR car, AND its angular position for me please that matches Nix frame 093. And do keep in mind, it needs to be the correct distance away from the fence line to be seen by Nix and the way YOU say that car is there. I'll be waiting...... ***Here is the ORIGINAL TOPIC I had began back in early 2009, before this topic was started by Duncan***As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginRick By doing some quick calculations using photogrammetry and factoring in the focal length of the original Nix film and the relative sizes of JFK's Limo compared to the yellow car in the background, you will find the position following perfectly correlates to the correct dimension that the rear car should be. I cannot say if this is the exact car, but from my calculations, it is the correct distance away, the yellow car may have been parked directly in front, which would satisfy your assumed FOV from Nix's position.   BTW I can't believe you have wasted the last 2 years of your life with this easily solved nonsense!
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« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 06:02:09 AM by John Mytton »
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January 07, 2012, 07:40:48 AM
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Bell Film Camera sweep of the fencline ( Zoomed Frames ) Timeline Hudson and the man in red can be seen sitting on the steps 
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« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 07:47:04 AM by Robin Unger »
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January 07, 2012, 06:08:45 PM
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Rick By doing some quick calculations using photogrammetry and factoring in the focal length of the original Nix film and the relative sizes of JFK's Limo compared to the yellow car in the background, you will find the position following perfectly correlates to the correct dimension that the rear car should be. I cannot say if this is the exact car, but from my calculations, it is the correct distance away, the yellow car may have been parked directly in front, which would satisfy your assumed FOV from Nix's position. BTW I can't believe you have wasted the last 2 years of your life with this easily solved nonsense! So what are you trying to tell me here? That your "car" was situated between sets of the railroad tracks? If so, the size of your car is too large. Question: And if this is a car, why does one of its wheels keep disappearing and re-appearing then? Answer: Because it's not a car. Nice try once again John. And to be perfectly honest with you, you have not earned one ounce of respect from me. And I doubt you ever will. But keep trying and keep your chin up    
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« Last Edit: January 07, 2012, 06:30:56 PM by Rick Needham »
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January 08, 2012, 11:56:22 AM
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So what are you trying to tell me here? That your "car" was situated between sets of the railroad tracks? If so, the size of your car is too large. Question: And if this is a car, why does one of its wheels keep disappearing and re-appearing then? Answer: Because it's not a car. Nice try once again John. And to be perfectly honest with you, you have not earned one ounce of respect from me. And I doubt you ever will. But keep trying and keep your chin up Rick I'm sure you have done this exercise already, but how far away from the fence is your man? A direct comparison to Clint Hill who is about 10% closer to Nix than "Fence Man" and their head size differs by 50%? Both men would be facing JFK, so the angle of their head's would differ not significantly from Nix's position. By using the inverse proportion rule, if Fence Man's head is half the size of Clint Hill's head then he should be twice as far away from Nix, but he ain't! In the following GIF, Clint Hill's head at "B" is twice as big as Fence Man at "C", therefore, Fence Man is a child or is on the other side of the CarPark!  BTW everyone else in the Nix Film conforms to this simple perspective rule except your alleged "Fence Man" Game Set and Match as far as I'm concerned.  
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January 08, 2012, 07:15:57 PM
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I'd rather think it is a freight train passing on the tracks behind the railyard.  The Bell footage shot from the Postal Annex building shows colored freight wagons on the tracks north of the DalTex.
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January 08, 2012, 11:41:43 PM
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I'd rather think it is a freight train passing on the tracks behind the railyard. The Bell footage shot from the Postal Annex building shows colored freight wagons on the tracks north of the DalTex. I must respectfully disagree on this one Gerda.
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January 08, 2012, 11:48:57 PM
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Rick I'm sure you have done this exercise already, but how far away from the fence is your man? A direct comparison to Clint Hill who is about 10% closer to Nix than "Fence Man" and their head size differs by 50%? Both men would be facing JFK, so the angle of their head's would differ not significantly from Nix's position. By using the inverse proportion rule, if Fence Man's head is half the size of Clint Hill's head then he should be twice as far away from Nix, but he ain't! In the following GIF, Clint Hill's head at "B" is twice as big as Fence Man at "C", therefore, Fence Man is a child or is on the other side of the CarPark! BTW everyone else in the Nix Film conforms to this simple perspective rule except your alleged "Fence Man" Game Set and Match as far as I'm concerned. Clint Hill's head is being viewed in a side or profile view, whereas the man behind the fence I am assuming is more or less facing Nix's direction. Believe it or not, there IS a difference in a head's proportional size between these views. Here you are John. You've just earned the tinfoil hat  You might want to take back your Game, Set and Match you cry 
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 01:45:07 AM by Rick Needham »
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January 09, 2012, 01:09:22 AM
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Using this aerial photograph taken of Dealey Plaza in 1967, I had added in the red lines which define Orville Nix's FOV (field of view) for frame 093 of the Nix film...that I had posted earlier in this topic. The blue lines indicate just where this "supposed yellow car w/ white top" HAS to fall in between to be seen in the Nix film. It is my belief that the white "top" IS an entire parked car, seen nearly face on from Nix's position. The bright, almost yellowish area BEFORE the white car is unoccupied parking space in the parking lot. Watch this animated GIF I had made sometime ago. Watch carefully for the area between the top of the fence and back to the white parked car seen nearly face on. You will see TWO horizontal lines which remain visible and they persist during this entire 23 frame animated GIF. It is my belief that these TWO horizontal lines are in fact a set of railroad tracks that run in a more or less northeast to southwest orientation....just like those seen in the aerial photograph below. This was no yellow car w/ a white top. It's too large and if oriented the way it's seen in Nix frame 093, it doesn't fit within the set of blue lines. This was a small area of unoccupied parking space in the parking lot. We see a white car parked way in the back of the parking lot. We also glimpse the set of railroad tracks which ran through the parking lot situated between this white car and Nix. Therefore, this must have been a man seen behind the fence in Nix.  And this is a crop taken from a highly enlarged Nix frame. Frame N093. 
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« Last Edit: January 09, 2012, 01:47:12 AM by Rick Needham »
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January 09, 2012, 03:03:28 AM
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Clint Hill's head is being viewed in a side or profile view, whereas the man behind the fence I am assuming is more or less facing Nix's direction. Believe it or not, there IS a difference in a head's proportional size between these views. Here you are John. You've just earned the tinfoil hat You might want to take back your Game, Set and Match you cry Rick You reckon he is "more or less" looking towards Nix, I don't think so, Fence Man would definitely be looking at The President, which is off Nix's line by at least 30°, and Clint Hill is looking at Jackie, but still not in profile, so as I originally said the angle of their heads would make little difference, when compared to the massive difference between Fence Man And Hill. Even with a full 90° turn the difference in a human head is only about 15%, but the difference between Hill and Fence Man is HUGE It must have been the teenage hit squad, hey Rick?  
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January 09, 2012, 03:34:22 AM
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Rick Exactly how big do you think the Fence Man was??? Here is a GIF matching a small boy and your Fence Man and his lttle feet don't even touch the ground! 
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