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 April 18, 2009, 01:16:36 AM
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I noticed this second car immediately on looking at Rick's latest gif in the JFK Bonus Materials thread. Given the unknown then and now variables, I am still not convinced that we are not seeing the car as I have illustrated in the other thread. I now see a second darker car near the first white colored car. The shadows coming from the car appear to be consistent with the direction of shadows cast on Nov 22nd 1963. I have made an illustration using the last frame from Rick's animation, which to me appears to show a second car. I'm reminded of the old saying..If it looks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Flies like a Duck, then it probably is a Duck. In this case, we appear to have 2 Ducks, neither of them being lame. 
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« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 05:21:48 AM by Duncan MacRae »
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March 17, 2010, 10:21:18 PM
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Hi Jerry!
You're quite right. Those men would have had a pretty clear line of sight to the alleged rifle-dismantling man - if they had had any particular reason to turn away from the drama down below and take a look that way. Does Bell give any indication that they did?
Hope you're well,
Sean
Sean, I believe you know more about Bell than I do - but only Chris Davidson may be able to tell for sure. FWIW, and I have old eyes, the two men appear in Bell as the limousine approaches and enters the underpass, and then in a later sequence as the camera cars move down Elm. In the second sequence it seems to me that the smaller of the two men has stepped back and the larger man is looking at the smaller - so the larger would be looking directly toward the switch box area. For me, even if everyone is looking the other way, the question is why would someone cross open-ground with a rifle to get within 20 feet of a witness that could turn at any second and THEN hide the weapon. I think that story only makes sense if there's no witness near the switch box. Particularly if shots, smoke and flashes have called attention away from Elm and toward the car park. Best to you, Jerry Well, that's right, Jerry. If these two, sniper & assistant, were acting according to a plan, then that plan was a plan designed to get these two killed in short order, because Foster was on the spot in 10 to 15 seconds post Z-313 & Foster was armed. It would have taken 20 to 30 seconds for the sniper to reach the steam pipe because of the densely packed cars in the lot. You can argue that Foster did not do what he said he did, but instead hid behind the structure to Holland's right. Maybe Foster was taking cover, panicked like a fraidy cat?
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« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 10:22:52 PM by Miles Scull »
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March 17, 2010, 10:24:21 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 610
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Hi Jerry!
You're quite right. Those men would have had a pretty clear line of sight to the alleged rifle-dismantling man - if they had had any particular reason to turn away from the drama down below and take a look that way. Does Bell give any indication that they did?
Hope you're well,
Sean
Sean, I believe you know more about Bell than I do - but only Chris Davidson may be able to tell for sure. FWIW, and I have old eyes, the two men appear in Bell as the limousine approaches and enters the underpass, and then in a later sequence as the camera cars move down Elm. In the second sequence it seems to me that the smaller of the two men has stepped back and the larger man is looking at the smaller - so the larger would be looking directly toward the switch box area. For me, even if everyone is looking the other way, the question is why would someone cross open-ground with a rifle to get within 20 feet of a witness that could turn at any second and THEN hide the weapon. I think that story only makes sense if there's no witness near the switch box. Particularly if shots, smoke and flashes have called attention away from Elm and toward the car park. Best to you, Jerry Well, that's right, Jerry. If these two, sniper & assistant, were acting according to a plan, then that plan was a plan designed to get these two killed in short order, because Foster was on the spot in 10 to 15 seconds post Z-313 & Foster was armed. It would have taken 20 to 30 seconds for the sniper to reach the steam pipe because of the densely packed cars in the lot. You can argue that Foster did not do what he said he did, but instead hid behind the structure to Holland's right. Maybe Foster was taking cover, panicked like a fraidy cat? Please, Miles, the grown-ups are talking.
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Yest nut aftre nut reads stuf like that and go with it. I figured you wouldn't be smart enough to see the problem.
- Brian Walker.
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March 17, 2010, 10:31:11 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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I believe you know more about Bell than I do - but only Chris Davidson may be able to tell for sure.
FWIW, and I have old eyes, the two men appear in Bell as the limousine approaches and enters the underpass, and then in a later sequence as the camera cars move down Elm.
In the second sequence it seems to me that the smaller of the two men has stepped back and the larger man is looking at the smaller - so the larger would be looking directly toward the switch box area.
Jerry. Interesting. Perhaps Chris D. - or someone else? - can share some high-quality frames from the relevant (i.e. second) Bell sequence? Until then, let's posit for argument's sake that the larger man is indeed looking in the direction of the switch box in this second sequence. What would our timestamp for this be? Cheers, Sean Sean, I don't believe, I know, that you have the post assassination time frames down to the fraction of a second. This frame shows the two men already in the position I think I see. So how long is that after the head shot?  Jerry
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March 17, 2010, 10:32:36 PM
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Group: Administrator
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I hadn't forgotten Jerry, but thanks for the reminder for any readers. thumbs1xx
Duncan - I knew it was somewhere in your gray cells but thought you might have been distracted by this week's DVD release of "The Twilight Saga: New Moon." Whois, Jerry...If you get my drift lmao
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March 17, 2010, 10:35:57 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 7999
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Hi Jerry!
You're quite right. Those men would have had a pretty clear line of sight to the alleged rifle-dismantling man - if they had had any particular reason to turn away from the drama down below and take a look that way. Does Bell give any indication that they did?
Hope you're well,
Sean
Sean, I believe you know more about Bell than I do - but only Chris Davidson may be able to tell for sure. FWIW, and I have old eyes, the two men appear in Bell as the limousine approaches and enters the underpass, and then in a later sequence as the camera cars move down Elm. In the second sequence it seems to me that the smaller of the two men has stepped back and the larger man is looking at the smaller - so the larger would be looking directly toward the switch box area. For me, even if everyone is looking the other way, the question is why would someone cross open-ground with a rifle to get within 20 feet of a witness that could turn at any second and THEN hide the weapon. I think that story only makes sense if there's no witness near the switch box. Particularly if shots, smoke and flashes have called attention away from Elm and toward the car park. Best to you, Jerry Well, that's right, Jerry. If these two, sniper & assistant, were acting according to a plan, then that plan was a plan designed to get these two killed in short order, because Foster was on the spot in 10 to 15 seconds post Z-313 & Foster was armed. It would have taken 20 to 30 seconds for the sniper to reach the steam pipe because of the densely packed cars in the lot. You can argue that Foster did not do what he said he did, but instead hid behind the structure to Holland's right. Maybe Foster was taking cover, panicked like a fraidy cat? Please, Miles, the grown-ups are talking. OK, I see. You concede the point. Fine, then, now let's remember that a Rambler is rambling around in the parking lot in order to whisk Suit-man into the seventh heaven, with Foster blazing away from the hip.
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« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 10:37:41 PM by Miles Scull »
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March 17, 2010, 10:39:05 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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I hadn't forgotten Jerry, but thanks for the reminder for any readers. thumbs1xx
Duncan - I knew it was somewhere in your gray cells but thought you might have been distracted by this week's DVD release of "The Twilight Saga: New Moon." Whois, Jerry...If you get my drift lmao :>))))
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March 17, 2010, 10:40:14 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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Hi Jerry!
You're quite right. Those men would have had a pretty clear line of sight to the alleged rifle-dismantling man - if they had had any particular reason to turn away from the drama down below and take a look that way. Does Bell give any indication that they did?
Hope you're well,
Sean
Sean, I believe you know more about Bell than I do - but only Chris Davidson may be able to tell for sure. FWIW, and I have old eyes, the two men appear in Bell as the limousine approaches and enters the underpass, and then in a later sequence as the camera cars move down Elm. In the second sequence it seems to me that the smaller of the two men has stepped back and the larger man is looking at the smaller - so the larger would be looking directly toward the switch box area. For me, even if everyone is looking the other way, the question is why would someone cross open-ground with a rifle to get within 20 feet of a witness that could turn at any second and THEN hide the weapon. I think that story only makes sense if there's no witness near the switch box. Particularly if shots, smoke and flashes have called attention away from Elm and toward the car park. Best to you, Jerry Well, that's right, Jerry. If these two, sniper & assistant, were acting according to a plan, then that plan was a plan designed to get these two killed in short order, because Foster was on the spot in 10 to 15 seconds post Z-313 & Foster was armed. It would have taken 20 to 30 seconds for the sniper to reach the steam pipe because of the densely packed cars in the lot. You can argue that Foster did not do what he said he did, but instead hid behind the structure to Holland's right. Maybe Foster was taking cover, panicked like a fraidy cat? Miles! hugsxx
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March 17, 2010, 10:51:10 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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I believe you know more about Bell than I do - but only Chris Davidson may be able to tell for sure.
FWIW, and I have old eyes, the two men appear in Bell as the limousine approaches and enters the underpass, and then in a later sequence as the camera cars move down Elm.
In the second sequence it seems to me that the smaller of the two men has stepped back and the larger man is looking at the smaller - so the larger would be looking directly toward the switch box area.
Jerry. Interesting. Perhaps Chris D. - or someone else? - can share some high-quality frames from the relevant (i.e. second) Bell sequence? Until then, let's posit for argument's sake that the larger man is indeed looking in the direction of the switch box in this second sequence. What would our timestamp for this be? Cheers, Sean Sean, I don't believe, I know, that you have the post assassination time frames down to the fraction of a second. This frame shows the two men already in the position I think I see. So how long is that after the head shot? Jerry Sean, Also here in the Hughes film. We need to convince Robin and Chris D to apply their full skills. This frame is from Robin and I think it (and Hughes in general) may show the two men as well as the Ed Hoffman switch box.  Jerry
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March 17, 2010, 10:53:55 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 610
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Sean, I don't believe, I know, that you have the post assassination time frames down to the fraction of a second. This frame shows the two men already in the position I think I see. So how long is that after the head shot? Jerry Jerry, Thanks indeed for the Bell image. To be honest, I don't see what you're seeing. I see two men still looking down at the street. However a better copy might very well prove me wrong. My understanding - and I'm open to correction - is that these frames are contemporaneous with 'Dillard 3' (showing Tom Atkins running after Camera Car 1). This would timestamp them to nearly a minute after the headshot, perhaps even a full minute. Sean
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March 17, 2010, 10:56:09 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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OK, Jerry, you want to be friends. If so, Duncan's your man.
You know me, I prefer dueling.
Miles you imp! Of course you prefer dueling!
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March 17, 2010, 11:07:34 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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Sean, I don't believe, I know, that you have the post assassination time frames down to the fraction of a second. This frame shows the two men already in the position I think I see. So how long is that after the head shot? Jerry Jerry, Thanks indeed for the Bell image. To be honest, I don't see what you're seeing. I see two men still looking down at the street. However a better copy might very well prove me wrong. My understanding - and I'm open to correction - is that these frames are contemporaneous with 'Dillard 3' (showing Tom Atkins running after Camera Car 1). This would timestamp them to nearly a minute after the headshot, perhaps even a full minute. Sean Sean, I'm not married to the the idea but comparing the earlier images to the later images suggests movement - better views would be great (hint to Robin, Chris, Miles). The men are definitely further apart .  Jerry
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« Last Edit: March 17, 2010, 11:09:49 PM by Jerry Logan »
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