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 April 18, 2009, 01:16:36 AM
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I noticed this second car immediately on looking at Rick's latest gif in the JFK Bonus Materials thread. Given the unknown then and now variables, I am still not convinced that we are not seeing the car as I have illustrated in the other thread. I now see a second darker car near the first white colored car. The shadows coming from the car appear to be consistent with the direction of shadows cast on Nov 22nd 1963. I have made an illustration using the last frame from Rick's animation, which to me appears to show a second car. I'm reminded of the old saying..If it looks like a Duck, Walks like a Duck, Quacks like a Duck, Flies like a Duck, then it probably is a Duck. In this case, we appear to have 2 Ducks, neither of them being lame. 
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« Last Edit: April 18, 2009, 05:21:48 AM by Duncan MacRae »
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April 29, 2009, 11:58:06 AM
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Here is a Hughes two frame animated gif. I'm sorry Jerry, but that "empty parking spot" between your Rambler & the blue car is just that, an empty parking space. No roadway there....it's off further to Murray's & Hughes right.
Rick
I appreciate the gif Rick, but as you can see, your premise of no posts at end row is incorrect. Your most welcome Jerry :) But your red arrow points not to your "Rambler". It points to the "blue car" ;) Rick, This is a crop from Chris's photo. I didn't add the red arrow (he did) and didn't intend it to mean to point to one car or another. I posted the photo solely to show fence posts at the ends of rows. I think Chris's photo was taken later and therefore the cars aren't the same. Jerry
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April 29, 2009, 12:00:42 PM
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Here is a Hughes two frame animated gif. I'm sorry Jerry, but that "empty parking spot" between your Rambler & the blue car is just that, an empty parking space. No roadway there....it's off further to Murray's & Hughes right.
Rick
I appreciate the gif Rick, but as you can see, your premise of no posts at end row is incorrect. Rick, You are quick on the draw. This time. ;D Your most welcome Jerry :) But your red arrow points not to your "Rambler". It points to the "blue car" ;) Sorry guys, not my red arrow. I think the cars had changed by the time of this photo.
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April 29, 2009, 12:15:59 PM
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Ok Guys, gotta hop!
While you're working on the post issue, you might also want to ask yourselves
"If it's really just an empty spot - how come we get a clean view with no people, no cars and NO POSTS all the way to the Train's shadow?
Seems like there'd be a post or something in there. And yes Rick, before you ask, the rails did go through the the pathway!
C Ya,
Jerry
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April 29, 2009, 12:27:10 PM
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Here is a Hughes two frame animated gif. I'm sorry Jerry, but that "empty parking spot" between your Rambler & the blue car is just that, an empty parking space. No roadway there....it's off further to Murray's & Hughes right.
Rick
I appreciate the gif Rick, but as you can see, your premise of no posts at end row is incorrect. Your most welcome Jerry :) But your red arrow points not to your "Rambler". It points to the "blue car" ;) Rick, This is a crop from Chris's photo. I didn't add the red arrow (he did) and didn't intend it to mean to point to one car or another. I posted the photo solely to show fence posts at the ends of rows. I think Chris's photo was taken later and therefore the cars aren't the same. Jerry Jerry, I agree. There ARE fence posts (short wooden poles or posts). When we look closely at Chris's photo which you attached to your post, things seen within it can easily be seen in the aerial photo taken the following day....November 23, 1963. Please see that attached & labeled photo. Rick
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But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people- John F. Kennedy
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April 29, 2009, 12:47:17 PM
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Ok Guys, gotta hop!
While you're working on the post issue, you might also want to ask yourselves
"If it's really just an empty spot - how come we get a clean view with no people, no cars and NO POSTS all the way to the Train's shadow?
Seems like there'd be a post or something in there. And yes Rick, before you ask, the rails did go through the the pathway!
C Ya,
Jerry
Jerry, Please read the text embedded within this photo attachment. There is no way the dirt "roadway" is just to the right of your "Rambler" seen in Murray. This I "think" should pretty much lay to rest the extreme right hand side of Murray's FOV. Rick
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« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 12:57:11 PM by Rick Needham »
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April 29, 2009, 03:02:17 PM
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Everyone. I would invite you to watch the video below. Then consider the "Nix" connection with my animations. Consider the timing seen in Nix.... and Bowers vantage point and then his tragic & mysterious death roll Rick <![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> Thanks Rick! Have you read this? h**p://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/bowers.txt Jerry Hey Jerry, Do you think Lee sneezed to death? shock;; Miles, Have you ever sneezed through a missing finger? Makes a mess of the windshield! Cmon, the guy at McAdams has to be at least as credible as Geraldo Rivera's son evil Hey, did you see that Stemmons enlargement from the car park photo? Isn't that where Ed Hoffman was standing? evil Jerry Jerry, Lee did not sneeze to death. Right? A goodie for you:  : from "Beyond The Fenceline: The Eyewitness Account of
Ed Hoffman and the Murder of President Kennedy
Casey J. Quinlan & Brian K. Edwards, pg. 157 (now out of print)
On October 1, 2001, JFK assassination researcher Debra Conway interviewed Olan
Degaugh, who was the Supervisor of the Yard Department with the Union Terminal Railroad
Company and was directly over Lee Bowers’ boss, Sam “Skinny” Holland. Conway provided
the authors with the notes from that interview,
At the time of the assassination, along with his railroad job, Degaugh owned D’s
Parking, which started where the Hyatt Regency Hotel is now and went around
the railroad tower behind the Texas School Book Depository.
Degaugh had a conversation with Lee Bowers sometime after the assassination
and learned that from his location inside the switching tower, Bowers saw a
man open the trunk of this car and put something inside and then the vehicle
left the area. The car, an older coupe of some kind, an older car, was parked next
to the picket fence.
Although Degaugh claimed Bowers never said why he didn’t tell everything he
saw before he died. Degaugh felt Bowers never told the authorities about the
men, the car, or what he saw these men doing immediately after the shooting
because he did not want to be more involved in the assassination controversy.
Degaugh said that Bowers was a good worker and a fine person. Further,
Degaugh described Bowers as all business, didn’t talk very much and while he
was somewhat of an introvert. was very credible.
On September 8, 2003, Conway conducted a second interview of Olan Degaugh who
provided this additional information,
He quoted Sam Holland telling him that the shots sounded like
popcorn being popped. Standing on the railroad bridge he believed
the sounds were coming from the north or east side of the fence line.
Degaugh said that Bowers told him that he saw someone running away. This
person put something inside a car, get into the car and drive away. Degaugh said that Bowers told him it looked like a rifle.
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April 29, 2009, 08:09:14 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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Ok Guys, gotta hop!
While you're working on the post issue, you might also want to ask yourselves
"If it's really just an empty spot - how come we get a clean view with no people, no cars and NO POSTS all the way to the Train's shadow?
Seems like there'd be a post or something in there. And yes Rick, before you ask, the rails did go through the the pathway!
C Ya,
Jerry
Jerry, Please read the text embedded within this photo attachment. There is no way the dirt "roadway" is just to the right of your "Rambler" seen in Murray. This I "think" should pretty much lay to rest the extreme right hand side of Murray's FOV. Rick All right Rick! Good eye! I kind of thought the same thing. Ultimately, I rejected it because I couldn't convince myself that Chris's car and the Hughes car were the same. However, I could be converted to your view if you can resolve a problem that's bothered me about the cars placement. If we assume the car is where you propose then a line should go from your Murray location through the car to approximately the end of the first RR car. We can see in the Hughes frames that a red car is parked at the end of the first RR car. Therefore we should expect the Murray line of sight through the car to end somewhere around the red car. But it actually ends much farther to the right, about the end of the second RR car. So I've had a terrible time putting the Murray car in that location because it doesn't line up right with the RR cars. If you can get the car to line up right with the RR cars I'm with you. Jerry
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« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 08:21:57 PM by Jerry Logan »
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April 29, 2009, 08:32:57 PM
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Here's one somewhat facing Murray, I guess.
Same cars?
Sorry about the size, but any larger and it's just horrendous.
chris
Bingo Chris. Same cars. The man who filmed was standing at the "group of men" position filming towards Murray's direction. Thank you Martin
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« Last Edit: April 29, 2009, 08:33:55 PM by Martin Hinrichs »
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April 30, 2009, 06:43:30 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 374
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Thanks Chris.
Nice shot looking back towards the Murray position.
This is turning out to be a very good thread, thanks to all those who have participated.
I have been pondering exactly where Murray was standing for nearly two years.
This thread goes a long way towards answering that question. !
Thanks.
Robin, I completely agree with you! Despite the occasional ego flair (I include myself, of course ;D), it's a really good example of how a group can come together to learn from each other and produce a good result. I know Rick and Martin have changed my thinking and Duncan and Chris always produce cutting insights at decisive moments. Also Robin, many thanks go to you for your invaluable photo archive. It wouldn't have been possible without the wonderful resource you've provided for us all. Best to you, Jerry
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April 30, 2009, 07:47:34 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2139
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Thanks Chris.
Nice shot looking back towards the Murray position.
This is turning out to be a very good thread, thanks to all those who have participated.
I have been pondering exactly where Murray was standing for nearly two years.
This thread goes a long way towards answering that question. !
Thanks.
Robin, I completely agree with you! Despite the occasional ego flair (I include myself, of course ;D), it's a really good example of how a group can come together to learn from each other and produce a good result. I know Rick and Martin have changed my thinking and Duncan and Chris always produce cutting insights at decisive moments. Also Robin, many thanks go to you for your invaluable photo archive. It wouldn't have been possible without the wonderful resource you've provided for us all. Best to you, Jerry Everything set aside Jerry, I would have to totally agree with you here ;) Robin summed it up when he said we now know a lot more now about Murray's location for that photo then we did before. I agree :D And once again, Robin's photo archive has proven invaluable! Thank you once again Robin ;) And it does show what a team of determined individuals can accomplish. Ego flairs are to be expected. It shows we're passionate in seeking the truth, and there's nothing wrong with that. And Duncan, I'll admit I may not have shadows down to a "T" yet, but I'm trying to learn along the way. Jerry...I know attorneys like to sometimes "flex their muscles"....a term I was told once by an attorney. Nothing wrong with that. We all do sometimes ;) I have a couple of real busy days ahead for me, but will try to tackle your mystery (if that's possible) soon, when I can find the spare time. Rick
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« Last Edit: April 30, 2009, 07:51:04 PM by Rick Needham »
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