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 February 02, 2012, 02:25:02 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 3791
Well, somebody did it.
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I'll let you speculate for a while, and I'll post the answer tomorrow.
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LN; So how did it happen then ?
CT; I don't know, I only know that it didn't happen the way the evidence says.
LN; We should not use evidence in this case ?
CT; Correct.
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February 06, 2012, 05:51:49 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 8758
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Mr. BELIN. Within the general area of Number 11 on Exhibit 523. Now, Mr. Scoggins, you stated you were sitting in your cab as you stopped at your intersection. You had a coke and your lunch.
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. What were you doing, eating your lunch?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I was in the process of eating it.
Mr. BELIN. You were in the process?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I had taken one or two bites of my sandwich and drank a couple of swallows out of my coke.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. DULLES. What time was this, approximately, as far as you can recall?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Around 1:20 in the afternoon.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Will you please state then what happened, what you saw, what you did, what you heard?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, I first seen the police car cruising east.
Mr. BELIN. About how fast was it cruising?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Not more than 10 or 12 miles a hour, I would say.
Mr. BELIN. It was going east on what street?
Mr. SCOGGINS. On Tenth.
Mr. BELIN. All right. Did you see the police car go across right in front of yours?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he went right down the street. He come from the west, going east On east Tenth.
Mr. BELIN. Then what did you see?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I noticed he stopped down there, and I wasn't paying too much attention to the man, you see, just used to see him every day, but then I kind of looked down the street, saw this, someone, that looked to me like he was going west, now, I couldn't exactly say whether he was going west or was in the process of turning around, but he was facing west when I saw him.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. SCOGGINS. And he was--he stopped there.
Mr. BELIN. Let me ask you this now. When you first saw this man, had the police car stopped or not?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he stopped. When I saw he stopped, then I looked to see why he was stopping, you see, and I saw this man with a light-colored jacket on.
Mr. BELIN. Now, you saw a man with a light-colored jacket. With relation to the police car, was the man east of the police car, west of the police car, or kind of.
Mr. SCOGGINS. Just a little east is the best I can remember.
Mr. BELIN. He was a little bit east of the police car?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he was just a little bit forward. The police car headed east and he was a little bit, maybe not more than the front end of the car.
Mr. BELIN. You thought the man was at the front end of the car?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; approximately.
Mr. BELIN. But by that you mean the front wheel or front bumper area?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Was he on the sidewalk?
Mr. SCOGGINS. At the time I saw him; yes.
Mr. BELIN. When you first saw him, I believe you said you saw the man's face, or did you not say that?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I couldn't see the man's face from there. I saw the face when he passed the cab.
Mr. BELIN. What led you to believe that he was walking west?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Well, he was facing west.
Mr. BELIN. You mean he was facing west when you first saw him?
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; he was kind of facing that way.
Mr. BELIN. Was it due west the way the sidewalk was, or was it--
Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; west in relation to the sidewalk.
Mr. BELIN. All right Then what did you see the man do?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I saw him turn facing the street, and then I didn't see him any more after that because he went behind some shrubbery.
Mr. BELIN. Did you see the police officer do anything?
Mr. SCOGGINS. I saw him get out of the police car.
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February 06, 2012, 06:11:54 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 246
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Jimmie Burt and Arthur Smith, I thought, had stated that Oswald came down Denver, turned onto East 10th walking west, and it was a few minutes later that the shooting occured. I don't buy their testimony, myself...Oswald would have walked 2 and 1/2 blocks, at least, and then turned and reversed his position. I can accept the argument from the point of view that he may have seen the police car and reversed direction; but I can't see how he could have done it that quickly. The time frames are two tight if he left his boarding house at 1 PM.
On a strange topic now. Did anyone besides Earlene Roberts see Oswald back at his boarding house, or even in the general vicinity? I mean, we seem to dismiss her assertion that she heard a police car toot its horn; are we sure Oswald ever even got there?
Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but is it also possible that the cab waited for him and then took him on down to his final destination? Makes the trip to Tippet even shorter a walk. Just a quick thought as I read through this thread.
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February 06, 2012, 07:03:37 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 225
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I'll let you speculate for a while, and I'll post the answer tomorrow.
due to the time zone etc, is it tomorrow yet?? or half time of the superbowl??????????????? 
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February 06, 2012, 08:18:02 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 352
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due to the time zone etc, is it tomorrow yet?? or half time of the superbowl??????????????? Hi, David, Mark's answer is on page 28 of this thread.
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February 06, 2012, 09:30:16 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 431
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Miles-
You realize that even if Oswald is walking West for some reason that he still got to the location to shoot Tippit? We know that from the cumulative evidence. You seem to base your entire theory that it wasn't Oswald on the fact that he couldn't walk from the boarding house to that location in 15 minutes. However, your re-creation shows it being done in about 16 minutes. So if that time estimate is off by even one minute Oswald is exactly where we know he was when he shot Tippit. No one was holding a stop watch that day timing Oswald's every move and charting it to Greenwich mean time. It's entirely possible that he walked a little faster, took a short cut or left a minute earlier. It's a rock solid case against him. The man is arrested a short distance away with a pistol. What are the odds even if you knew nothing else?
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February 06, 2012, 09:40:28 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 1904
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So Mark's theory has Oswald walking east on 10th when spotted by Tippit. You are back with the problem of what was so suspicious about this pedestrian? No 180 degree turn as Oswald has his back to Tippit. Tippit's car is about 200 feet behind Oswald as he crosses 10th and Patton. The southern side of 10th is tree-lined limiting Tippit's view of Oswald. The description broadcast is so vague Tippit must have passed numerous white males fitting the specifications in the past half hour or so. What draws his attention?
In any case Colin why would Tippit apprehend the suspect on his own and in the manner in which he did. He didn't draw his pistol before he got out of the car. Compare that to Baker who had his pistol drawn when he went up the stairs in the TSBD. If he suspected Oswald of being the killer, then why was he so casual about it ? Remember Markham recalled the incident as; Mrs. MARKHAM. The policeman calmly opened the car door, very slowly, wasn't angry or nothing, he calmly crawled out of this car, and I still just thought a friendly conversation, maybe disturbance in the house, I did not know; well, just as the policeman got-- It doesn't appear to me that Tippit pulled him up suspecting him as the killer. It wasn't a red alert reaction. If he did suspect him of being the killer then he would have suspected he was dangerous and very possibly armed. Doesn't make sense for him to even approach him on his own let alone without his pistol drawn.
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February 06, 2012, 09:44:34 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 9052
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Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but is it also possible that the cab waited for him and then took him on down to his final destination? Makes the trip to Tippet even shorter a walk.
Just a quick thought as I read through this thread.
There's two problems with that. One, Whaley never mentions waiting on Oswald after dropping him off. Two, Roberts said that she saw Oswald standing, at least momentarily, at a bus stop after leaving the rooming house.
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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
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February 06, 2012, 09:47:42 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 9052
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In any case Colin why would Tippit apprehend the suspect on his own and in the manner in which he did. He didn't draw his pistol before he got out of the car. Compare that to Baker who had his pistol drawn when he went up the stairs in the TSBD. If he suspected Oswald of being the killer, then why was he so casual about it ? Remember Markham recalled the incident as;
Mrs. MARKHAM. The policeman calmly opened the car door, very slowly, wasn't angry or nothing, he calmly crawled out of this car, and I still just thought a friendly conversation, maybe disturbance in the house, I did not know; well, just as the policeman got--
It doesn't appear to me that Tippit pulled him up suspecting him as the killer. It wasn't a red alert reaction. If he did suspect him of being the killer then he would have suspected he was dangerous and very possibly armed. Doesn't make sense for him to even approach him on his own let alone without his pistol drawn.
You make a good point, Paul. But, it's also possible that Tippit, for whatever reason, underestimated the suspect... a fatal mistake.
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