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 February 02, 2012, 01:00:03 AM
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Newbie
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We all know that the damage to the skull and brain was extensive - and i dont have any doubts that the Parkland Doctors did everything they could to save him...................................but Im just thinking..........if it happened today with all the resusitory and recovery techniques available now............could we have saved him i wonder in 2012?
Regards
Mike ONeill
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February 04, 2012, 02:32:33 AM
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Super Member
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Tony She later said the same thing about herself, if reports are to be believed. Its not an insult, it is a simple fact. I don't think the comment wishes ill will against her in any way, certainly I never wished for such. Instead one hopes a person like her finds self forgiveness and peace. We aren't put here to spend our lives doing this  against a wall. Why are you defending him? Because he is your fellow rightwing nut? Jackie never said that. Clint Hill blamed himself for not reacting instantly. Jackie was not a Secret Service agent. What could she have done? Kellerman was the closest SS agent and he couldn't do anything either. Greer should have stomped on the gas immediately. But instead he slowed down. I don't hold him responsible for the assassination. He could not have blocked the shot from the grassy knoll. There are some kooks who claim that Greer was part of the conspiracy and his part in the plan was to intentionally slow down or stop the limo in the middle of Elm Street. There is even one kook who claims that Greer made the rear seat go up 10-1/2 inches to make JFK an easier target. It is kooky comments like that from both sides which have no place in a forum like this. There is a proper time and place for the kooks. It is called alt.conspiracy.jfk. Use it.
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February 04, 2012, 02:38:27 AM
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Super Member
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It's nobody's fault except the shooter. She was the President's wife, for crying out loud. She was acknowledging the people to her left when the first bullet hit, just as Barbara Bush or Nancy Reagan would have been doing. I'd love to see what any of us would have done, sitting in that car in her seat on that day. It was all done in six seconds, and there's very few people I know that can be fully aware of a traumatic event happening even right next to them in that amount of time. To even suggest that better alertness on her part could have saved JFK's life is in poor taste, at the very least. It's also pretty tough to blame the Secret Service...from behind, they could only see so much. By the time Jackie was trying to comfort him, we were only a couple of seconds from the fatal shot, and this could have easily been the first indication that the President had even been hit from that angle. Many of them heard the shot, but it didn't mean the President had been hit....
It drove Clint Hill insane and into alcoholism thinking that if only he had reacted a split second sooner he could have saved the President. But he would need to be psychic and react even before the first shot. Compare that to Jerry Parr's instantaneous reaction which saved Reagan. The Secret Service learned from their errors on 11/22/63 to become a much more professional organization.
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February 04, 2012, 02:49:37 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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The bullet traversed his brain and lodged behind his eye, so I doubt the probe did any further real damage.
That's not the point. Probing the head with a metal probe is bound to do damage by creating false paths and damaging more areas than the bullet went through. I don't remember his name but there was a forensic pathologist who discussed this problem on a TV special. Another doctor tries to set the record straight. ALO: Which bullet path do you think is most accurate? Dr. Houmes: What's interesting is that in the accounts of the physicians at his bedside in the Petersen House there is a wonderful, almost minute-by-minute account of what Lincoln looked like, what his vital signs were like, and how he was acting even though he was unconscious -- he would have some movements, some twitching, things like that, and it's a foregone conclusion that he was brain-dead by about 1:00 a.m. This was recorded by Dr. A.F. Stone, noting that President Lincoln suddenly had spasmodic contractions of his arms, he stopped breathing for a few seconds, and then both pupils became widely dilated -- and they stayed that way until he was pronounced dead. When Lincoln exhibited these signs, the increasing pressure from the gunshot wound had herniated part of his brain, pushing it down into the opening of the spinal canal and he could no longer be saved, even by medical standards today. The area beneath the brain is called the brain stem, and it controls breathing and heart rate. When there is pressure on the brain stem like this, whether by trauma or any other process, the vital signs begin to deteriorate and the breathing slows, becomes irregular and gasping, and the blood pressure eventually starts to fall. This is what the doctors observed and recorded. I believe from the neurologic signs and the later autopsy notes that the bullet ended behind or above the right eye. Incidentally, this is also the strongest argument against the critics who claim that the doctors "killed" Mr. Lincoln by probing his brain with a silver probe and then a Nelaton probe. He was already brain dead when the physicians attempted these procedures at about 2:00 a.m. If anything, they may have prolonged his life by relieving the pressure on his brain by reopening the bullet hole in his skull.
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February 04, 2012, 03:49:09 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 603
it started with the gunshots
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the only way JFK cold have been saved is if jackie had pulled him down in the seat out of harms way just as nelly was doing to john. or agents could have gotten to the car faster to cover them them before the head shot..thats the only way. but a person would have to be moving to do that in 6-8 seconds
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2012, 03:49:43 PM by Mark Underwood »
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politics is a very dangerous game, because you never know what evil is lurking against you if you piss them off
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February 04, 2012, 04:06:43 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 143
That phrase at the beginning of "The X-Files"...
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It drove Clint Hill insane and into alcoholism thinking that if only he had reacted a split second sooner he could have saved the President.
But he would need to be psychic and react even before the first shot.
Compare that to Jerry Parr's instantaneous reaction which saved Reagan. The Secret Service learned from their errors on 11/22/63 to become a much more professional organization.
Exactly. You've got to feel for Hill. And for Jackie. I can't think for one second that anything that they could have done differently. For anyone to be so stellar as to make the reaction they did in 6 seconds would be beyond remarkable. Heck, when you watch Hill's movements, I don't know that he could have reacted quickly enough - once he realized what might be going on - to even physically get to the President fast enough to save him. And what about Kellerman - as soon as he saw something was wrong, why not hit the accelerator right away and get him out of there?
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February 04, 2012, 05:08:18 PM
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Jr. Member
Posts: 54
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We all know that the damage to the skull and brain was extensive - and i dont have any doubts that the Parkland Doctors did everything they could to save him...................................but Im just thinking..........if it happened today with all the resusitory and recovery techniques available now............could we have saved him i wonder in 2012?
Regards
Mike ONeill
Not a chance in hell of saving him in 2012.
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February 05, 2012, 02:28:59 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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the only way JFK cold have been saved is if jackie had pulled him down in the seat out of harms way just as nelly was doing to john. or agents could have gotten to the car faster to cover them them before the head shot..thats the only way. but a person would have to be moving to do that in 6-8 seconds
Clint Hill could not have gotten to the limo before the head shot and he could not have blocked the shot from the grassy knoll.
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February 05, 2012, 02:31:01 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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the only way JFK cold have been saved is if jackie had pulled him down in the seat out of harms way just as nelly was doing to john. or agents could have gotten to the car faster to cover them them before the head shot..thats the only way. but a person would have to be moving to do that in 6-8 seconds
You seem to forget that your side always claims that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet can easily go through two men. Covering Kennedy with his body would not do any good.
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February 05, 2012, 04:26:44 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 3791
Well, somebody did it.
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I wasn't blaming Jackie Kennedy for anything. I was just stating the obvious, had she reacted as Mrs Conally then maybe a different ending, but its Oswald's fault and no one else other than that guy behind the fence, what was his name again ? Gazoo or something ?
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LN; So how did it happen then ?
CT; I don't know, I only know that it didn't happen the way the evidence says.
LN; We should not use evidence in this case ?
CT; Correct.
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February 05, 2012, 06:50:53 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 603
it started with the gunshots
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You seem to forget that your side always claims that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet can easily go through two men. Covering Kennedy with his body would not do any good.
who made that claim? i never made that claim.. but to be realistic. its never been unheard of that a bullet can penetrate more than one object..doesn't have to be a mannlicher carcano..it can be a 30.06 or any high powered rifle...
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February 06, 2012, 02:52:54 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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Not a chance in hell of saving him in 2012.
Need I remind you that Gabriel Giffords was shot in the head with an almost identical wound track and they saved her life?
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