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 January 31, 2012, 01:32:38 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 3791
Well, somebody did it.
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Who would have ever believed that if a man was brought to trial for murder with evidence against him like the following, that there could possibly be people that believe that he is innocent.
1.) His prints on the murder weapon
2.) A film of the victim being shot
3.) Shells traced to the rifle that he owned and that have his fingerprints,
4.) The rifle itself found in the ares of the shells
5.) The shots fired from the building that he was in
6.) No alibi for where he was during the shooting
7.) Was seen alone by a policeman and a coworker in the building just seconds after the shooting.
8.) One of only two employees who left the building and the other is cleared.
9.) Goes on to kill a cop an hour later with a pistol.
10.) Sneaks into a theater to hide.
11.) Fights with cops during his arrest
I'm not trying to change your mind, I'm asking of you have one.
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LN; So how did it happen then ?
CT; I don't know, I only know that it didn't happen the way the evidence says.
LN; We should not use evidence in this case ?
CT; Correct.
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February 01, 2012, 05:44:10 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 858
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One common trait attributed to Ruby by friends, acquaintences, employees, customers, cops etc. is his lack of self control. Particularly, he was VERY emotional. His emotional instability and lack of self control had gotten him in to trouble before. It proved to be his undoing, as that is a very bad combination of weaknesses. Almost none of his friends or employees were very surprised that he shot Oswald.
(Not sure but) I believe "Sparky" had to get a Dallas policeman friend to get his revolver for him. So much for Ruby being a mob enforcer who could have bee involved in gunrunning to Cuba. He wanted the gun for protection because he carried around significant amounts of cash. I think he was trying to keep it out of the hands of the feds (didn't he owe a lot of income tax). Seems he railed on about the Jews having to show "guts". Over time, his mental state deteriorated to the point where he claimed Jews were being murdered in the basement. Supposedly he had syphilis. He didn't live long.
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 "It's, uh, very heavy." — President Johnson on receiving the Warren Report in the Oval Office, Sept. 24, 1964
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February 01, 2012, 07:08:04 AM
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Full Member
Posts: 143
That phrase at the beginning of "The X-Files"...
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One of the places I always trip over is when it is suggested that Ruby did it on orders from someone. Really?
What sort of person would, on the command of some underworld thug, step forward and shoot the accused assassin of the President? Who had that much control over someone like Ruby? I don'T know a whole lot about Jack Ruby, only what has been said about him just like any of you have read overth years; it seems to me he was a man who would not be easily controlled or manipulated by others at all. I can't imagine him giving up his life in this way for some 3rd person.
I have never believed that he thought he'd be a hero for shooting Oswald. I don'think he was that stupid. Guys like Jack Ruby never are. Street smart from a young age onward til the end of his life.
I see the same sort of idea presented about Oswald sometimes, that he had the assigned task of taking the fall for the hit team, etc., and I don't believe that one either. Basically for the same reason: who had that much control oer him? What kind of person would say "sure, no problem!" to the order of taking the blame for assassinating the President?
I can't believe, honestly, what I read on this page sometimes! We dismiss a boatload of witnesses as being "unreliable", and then we choose to believe that Ruby suddenly became an incensed patriot, even though there was nothing in his character that suggested he would...and I'm beyond amused at how many people with very sensible analysis of everything else to do with the assassination seem to just accept Ruby being in that garage, seeing it as being "reasonable". Frankly, it's beyond ridiculous. And as much as I believe that Oswald was the primary - and quite possibly, lone - gunman, there is simply no way that I can find any reasonable argument that Jack Ruby's story makes even a small amount of sense. As I've said - this is the one incident that makes the LN scenario harder to believe.
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February 01, 2012, 07:52:52 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 1904
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I can't believe, honestly, what I read on this page sometimes! We dismiss a boatload of witnesses as being "unreliable", and then we choose to believe that Ruby suddenly became an incensed patriot, even though there was nothing in his character that suggested he would...and I'm beyond amused at how many people with very sensible analysis of everything else to do with the assassination seem to just accept Ruby being in that garage, seeing it as being "reasonable". Frankly, it's beyond ridiculous. And as much as I believe that Oswald was the primary - and quite possibly, lone - gunman, there is simply no way that I can find any reasonable argument that Jack Ruby's story makes even a small amount of sense. As I've said - this is the one incident that makes the LN scenario harder to believe.
Ruby may have been spurred on by the notion of being a hero or even talked into it. I find it difficult to accept is that it was a fortuitous event. Ruby had never had to sneak into the DPD before. In fact he was quite familiar with a lot of the officers and knew them by name. Whether the cops were involved and wanted retribution for the Tippit killing is of course speculation but he did manage to get close enough to be able to shoot Oswald point blank when security was suppose to be at its maximum. Despite the explanation for this surreal moment I still have suspicion about it. How could you not.
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February 01, 2012, 08:59:31 AM
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Posts: 6715
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(Not sure but) I believe "Sparky" had to get a Dallas policeman friend to get his revolver for him. So much for Ruby being a mob enforcer who could have bee involved in gunrunning to Cuba. He wanted the gun for protection because he carried around significant amounts of cash. I think he was trying to keep it out of the hands of the feds (didn't he owe a lot of income tax).
Seems he railed on about the Jews having to show "guts". Over time, his mental state deteriorated to the point where he claimed Jews were being murdered in the basement. Supposedly he had syphilis. He didn't live long.
Supposedly, but actually you just make up a lot of crap.
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February 01, 2012, 02:25:13 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 143
That phrase at the beginning of "The X-Files"...
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Ruby may have been spurred on by the notion of being a hero or even talked into it. I find it difficult to accept is that it was a fortuitous event. Ruby had never had to sneak into the DPD before. In fact he was quite familiar with a lot of the officers and knew them by name. Whether the cops were involved and wanted retribution for the Tippit killing is of course speculation but he did manage to get close enough to be able to shoot Oswald point blank when security was suppose to be at its maximum. Despite the explanation for this surreal moment I still have suspicion about it. How could you not.
I know that we'll never know his motivation. It's just the most suspicious of moments. 
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February 01, 2012, 04:19:32 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 858
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Supposedly, but actually you just make up a lot of crap.
Huh? I didn't say he was actually gunrunning to Cuba. I didn't say he had syphilis or died of syphilis. He died of a pulmonary embolism from lung cancer. (He was called an "avenger" at his funeral.) I guess some think syphilis would explain his irrational mental state and pathetic ramblings.  Dallas Police Detective Joe Cody befriended Ruby and used him as an occasional informer. In 1960, using Ruby's money I assume, Coby purchased the Colt Cobra .38 revolver and ammo for $62.50; as a policeman, taxes were deferred. According to Alan Adelson, the Ruby family attorney, speaking to the HSCA: | |
Mr. ADELSON: After the trial, as I said, Jack Ruby developed this paranoid state. I merely want to point out one significant aspect. When Jack Ruby was taken before the Warren Commission the second time he made statements to the effect "take me to Washington, I want to leave Dallas, can you take me out of here, can I go to Washington and talk to the President."
Now, this involves, as we saw on this film--this involves things that were going on in Ruby's mind at the time. This psychological or psychiatric problem he was having developed possibly from his reading a book called "Exodus." He was kept on the, I believe, the sixth floor of the jail in Dallas, whereas the fifth floor was the mental ward, and at night he would hear screams and even during the day.
He developed this thinking that all the Jews in the United States were being taken into Dallas and systematically disposed of, where maybe he saw in Dallas the Warsaw ghetto from "Exodus," and he believed that the Jews were being disposed of, and he believed that because of his paranoid state. |
"So you hear the screams? They are torturing the Jews again down in the basement". (Wills and Demaris, Jack Ruby, pg. 225) Ruby's mother, who was beaten by her husband, became so deranged, her children were placed in foster care for 18 months. In 1938, they had her committed. Belli thought he could persuade a jury that Ruby was legally insane and that he acted in an involuntary rage. Guess he knew Ruby pretty good.
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