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JFK Assassination Forum > JFK Assassination General Discussion & Debate  > JFK Assassination General Discussion & Debate > Isn't this a slam dunk ?
May 24, 2012, 09:15:48 AM
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Isn't this a slam dunk ?  (Read 1587 times)
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Offline  Mark Henceroth
January 31, 2012, 01:32:38 AM

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Well, somebody did it.

Who would have ever believed that if a man was brought to trial for murder with evidence against him like the following, that there could possibly be people that believe that he is innocent.

1.) His prints on the murder weapon

2.) A film of the victim being shot

3.)  Shells traced to the  rifle that he owned and that have his fingerprints,

4.) The rifle itself found in the ares of the shells

5.) The shots fired from the building that he was in

6.)  No alibi for where he was during the shooting

7.) Was seen alone by a policeman and a coworker in the building just seconds after the shooting.

8.) One of only two employees who left the building and the other is cleared.

9.) Goes on to kill a cop an hour later with a pistol.

10.) Sneaks into a theater to hide.

11.) Fights with cops during his arrest

I'm not  trying to change your mind, I'm asking of you have one.


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LN; So how did it happen then ?

CT; I don't know, I only know that it didn't happen the way the evidence says.

LN;  We should not use evidence in this case ?

CT; Correct.
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Offline  Jerry Organ
January 31, 2012, 02:05:18 AM

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Who would have ever believed that if a man was brought to trial for murder with evidence against him like the following, that there could possibly be people that believe that he is innocent.

1.) His prints on the murder weapon

2.) A film of the victim being shot

3.)  Shells traced to the  rifle that he owned and that have his fingerprints,

4.) The rifle itself found in the ares of the shells

5.) The shots fired from the building that he was in

6.)  No alibi for where he was during the shooting

7.) Was seen alone by a policeman and a coworker in the building just seconds after the shooting.

8.) One of only two employees who left the building and the other is cleared.

9.) Goes on to kill a cop an hour later with a pistol.

10.) Sneaks into a theater to hide.

11.) Fights with cops during his arrest

I'm not  trying to change your mind, I'm asking of you have one.

Imagine if Oswald had not been noticed by Johnny Brewer? His mysterious disappearance all that afternoon would have given the conspirati a field day.

It's incidental, but Oswald was a wife-beater who controlled her with threats of being deported. Imagine the constant state of fear and low self-worth Marina suffered (but she was from a traditionalist part of the world where women persevered and she went to see him when he was arrested).

Oswald is in it up to his ears, but he still insists on getting New York lawyer John Abt to consider his case. Strange fellow, our Lee.

Has a brain freeze when it comes to the Carcano and Backyard Photos (he doesn't even own up to having lived at the address where the photos were taken). And why deny the "curtain rod" story if it was true?

Why not go out on the sidewalk to see the President and Jackie go by? It's the opportunity of a lifetime. Was Oswald that anti-American?


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"It's, uh, very heavy."
— President Johnson
on receiving the Warren Report
in the Oval Office, Sept. 24, 1964
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Offline  Anthony Marsh
January 31, 2012, 02:42:21 AM
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Who would have ever believed that if a man was brought to trial for murder with evidence against him like the following, that there could possibly be people that believe that he is innocent.

1.) His prints on the murder weapon

2.) A film of the victim being shot

3.)  Shells traced to the  rifle that he owned and that have his fingerprints,

4.) The rifle itself found in the ares of the shells

5.) The shots fired from the building that he was in

6.)  No alibi for where he was during the shooting

7.) Was seen alone by a policeman and a coworker in the building just seconds after the shooting.

8.) One of only two employees who left the building and the other is cleared.

9.) Goes on to kill a cop an hour later with a pistol.

10.) Sneaks into a theater to hide.

11.) Fights with cops during his arrest

I'm not  trying to change your mind, I'm asking of you have one.

Need I remind you that Hinkley was found not guilty?


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   ReplyReply
Offline  Mark Henceroth
January 31, 2012, 02:53:49 AM

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Well, somebody did it.

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Need I remind you that Hinkley was found not guilty?


83% of people thought he was guilty, lol familiar tone.

Anyway, he was not-guilty by reason of insanity, not lack of evidence. I haven't seen a CT yet that thinks that Oswald was insane.


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Offline  Anthony Marsh
January 31, 2012, 03:01:09 AM
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83% of people thought he was guilty, lol familiar tone.

Anyway, he was not-guilty by reason of insanity, not lack of evidence. I haven't seen a CT yet that thinks that Oswald was insane.

Do I really have to bring up OJ Simpson?
FYI, many people who think the JFK assassination was a conspiracy think that Oswald was part of the conspiracy. Everyone in Washington thought that.


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Offline  Mark Henceroth
January 31, 2012, 03:04:59 AM

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Well, somebody did it.

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Do I really have to bring up OJ Simpson?
FYI, many people who think the JFK assassination was a conspiracy think that Oswald was part of the conspiracy. Everyone in Washington thought that.


At least that makes sense on at least one level though there is no evidence to support it, the ones that believe that he had nothing to with it at all are kind of screwy.


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Offline  Mark Henceroth
January 31, 2012, 03:06:13 AM

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Well, somebody did it.

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Do I really have to bring up OJ Simpson?
FYI, many people who think the JFK assassination was a conspiracy think that Oswald was part of the conspiracy. Everyone in Washington thought that.


Oswald wasn't going to get a black sympathy vote.


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Offline  John Murray
January 31, 2012, 03:22:23 AM

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That phrase at the beginning of "The X-Files"...

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Who would have ever believed that if a man was brought to trial for murder with evidence against him like the following, that there could possibly be people that believe that he is innocent.

1.) His prints on the murder weapon

2.) A film of the victim being shot

3.)  Shells traced to the  rifle that he owned and that have his fingerprints,

4.) The rifle itself found in the ares of the shells

5.) The shots fired from the building that he was in

6.)  No alibi for where he was during the shooting

7.) Was seen alone by a policeman and a coworker in the building just seconds after the shooting.

8.) One of only two employees who left the building and the other is cleared.

9.) Goes on to kill a cop an hour later with a pistol.

10.) Sneaks into a theater to hide.

11.) Fights with cops during his arrest

I'm not  trying to change your mind, I'm asking of you have one.
My problem is not with the evidence you've quoted.  Only with the evidence you have not.

Everything in terms of physical evidence in the shooting of JFK and Tippitt points at Oswald.  Even though a good lawyer could make some holes, it would be unlikely that the media storm pointing every finger at Oswald would allow any jury to acquit him.

And on that basis, why on earth would a nightclub owner with known ties to organized crime suddenly grow a conscience (although the Kennedys had declared war on organized crime) and shoot Oswald dead while he's in transit?  How did the Dallas police let him in there?  How did he have a gun with him?

As logical as your argument as to Oswald's guilt is (and I agree that he was), the rationale for Ruby to kill him is pure lunacy - unless there was some other reason.  Is it speculation?  Sure.  But the alternative - that Ruby was suddenly a patriot - makes considerably less sense.


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Offline  Gary Craig
January 31, 2012, 03:22:59 AM

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Who would have ever believed that if a man was brought to trial for murder with evidence against him like the following, that there could possibly be people that believe that he is innocent.

1.) His prints on the murder weapon

2.) A film of the victim being shot

3.)  Shells traced to the  rifle that he owned and that have his fingerprints,

4.) The rifle itself found in the ares of the shells

5.) The shots fired from the building that he was in

6.)  No alibi for where he was during the shooting

7.) Was seen alone by a policeman and a coworker in the building just seconds after the shooting.

8.) One of only two employees who left the building and the other is cleared.

9.) Goes on to kill a cop an hour later with a pistol.

10.) Sneaks into a theater to hide.

11.) Fights with cops during his arrest

I'm not  trying to change your mind, I'm asking of you have one.

I'm not trying to change your's either, just trying to get you to use yours.

Just because Oswald was charged doesn't make him guilty.

What evidence would have been allowed in any case against him isn't known.

He was questioned without a lawyer from Fri. to Sun. when he clearly asked for legal assisitance and complained bitterly about the line-ups he was subjected to.

Line-ups that some participants said were a joke.


TESTIMONY OF (some of the) EYE-WITNESSES WHO THOUGHT SHOTS CAME FROM OTHER THAN THE TSBD

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1.  Danny Garcia Arces - Shots came from railroad track yards.
2.  Mrs. Donald Sam Baker - Shots came from railroad yards;not possible to come from the TSBD.
3.  Mrs. A. G.(Jane)Berry- Thought shots came from west of her position.
4.  O. V. Campbell - Thought shots came from railroad yard to west of the TSBD.
5.  Mrs. Charles Thomas (Avery) Davis - Thought shots came from triple underpass.
6.  Mrs. John T. (Elsie) Dorman) - She was on the 4th floor of TSBD and thought shots came from Records Building.
7.  Mr. and Mrs. Jack Franzen - Thought shots came from area adjacent to TSBD.
8.  Buell Wesley Frazier - Thought shots came from railroad overpass.
9.  Dorthy Ann Garner - Thought shots came from west of TSBD (she was on 4th floor or TSBD)
10. Bobby W. Hargis - Believes shot came from right front (grassy knoll area) - from overpass
11. Mrs. John Hawkins - Thought shots came from railroad yards adjacent to TSBD.
12. Mrs. Jean Lollis Hill - Thought shots were coming from the knoll, just west of the TSBD.
13. Postal Inspector Harry D. Holmes - Thought shots came from crowd.
14. Mrs. Yola D. Hopson - Did not think the sound (of the shots) came from the TSBD.
15. Emmet Joseph Hudson - Shots came from behind and above him; from rear, high. (He was on steps leading up knoll)
16. Mrs. George Andrew Kounas - Thought shots came from the west.
17. Secret Service Agent Paul E. Landis Jr. - 1st shot came from behind and over right shoulder; 2nd shot came from right   front and hit President's head.
18. Billy Nolan Lovelady - Thought shots came from the knoll of from across the street.
19. Judith L. McCully - From right side of arcade building.
20. Austin Lawerence Miller - Shots came from his left (he was standing on the triple underpass).
21. A. J. Millican - Shots came from the pergola.
22. Joe R. Molina - Shots came from west side (he was on steps of TSBD.
23. Thomas J. Murphy - Shots came from spot just west of TSBD.
24. Mrs. P. E. Newman - Shots came from her right (west). She was halfway from TSBD to Stemmons Freeway sign.
25. William E Newman, Jr. - Shots came from "garden" directly behind Newman (he was standing at east end of pergola)
26. Mrs. William V. Parker - First shot came from pergola.
27. J. C. Price - Assumed shots from Triple Underpass.
28. Frank E. Reilly - Shots came from trees at west end of pergola on north side of Elm. (He was standing on                  Triple Underpass).  
29. Mrs. A. L. Rowland - Shots came from railroad yard.
30. W. H. (Bill) Shelly - Shots came from west (he was on TSBD steps)
31. Police Officer Edgar Leon Smith, Jr. - Shots came from railroad yard or grassy knoll area.
32. Officer Joe Marshall Smith - Thought shots came from Elm St.extension, bushes of the overpass.
33. Secret Service Agent Forrest Sorrels - Shots came from knoll;'top of terrace to my right.
34. James Thomas Tague - Shots came from bushes at pergola.
35. Roy S. Truly - Shots came from west of TSBD.
36. Deputy Sheriff Harry Weatherford - Shots came from railroad yard.
37. County Surveyor Robert M. West - Shots came from northeast quadrant of Dealy Plaza.
38. Lupe Whitaker - Shots came from west of TSBD.
39. Otis Neville Williams - Came from direction of Triple Underpass.
40. Steven F. Wilson - Shots came from west end of building or pergola; not above.
    (He was on 3rd floor of TSBD)
41. Mary Elizabeth Woodward - Possibly came from overpass.
42. Abraham Zapruder - Shots came from in back of him.
43. Deputy Sheriff Harold Elkins

--------------------------

.Mary Ferrell Chronologies


Bonnie Richey: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Mrs. R. E. (Carolyn) Arnold: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Mrs. Donald Sam (Virgie Rackley) Baker: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Betty Jane Dragoo: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Judy Marie Johnson: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Gloria Jean Holt: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Mrs. Sharon Simmons Nelson: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Mrs. Stella Mae Jacob: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Charles D Givens: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Virginia H Barnum: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

Vida Lee Whatley: Does not return to the TSBD after the assassination.

May be more, not listed here.


The FBI lists 70 occupants for the TSBD building.

When Lee H Oswald's name and four absent employees (missed work that day) , namely Kaiser, Mrs. J.A. Davis and Mrs J.L. Lovelady,
and Mrs Rudell Parson, are added a total of 75 is reached.

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Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
John F. Kennedy
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Offline  Anthony Marsh
January 31, 2012, 04:09:03 AM
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Oswald wasn't going to get a black sympathy vote.

Leave it to our resident racist to play the race card. The OJ Simpson case was weak because of the prosecution mistakes and mishandling of evidence which produced reasonable doubt.


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Offline  Paul May
January 31, 2012, 04:15:59 AM

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Leave it to our resident racist to play the race card. The OJ Simpson case was weak because of the prosecution mistakes and mishandling of evidence which produced reasonable doubt.


Reasonable doubt?????  Never let it be said that FACTS stand in the way of Marsh making yet one more moronic statement.   Conspiracy theorists always bring up the polls showing the majority of Americans believe in conspiracy in the JFK case.  90%  of blacks considered Simpson innocent.  90% of white considered him guilty.  Those are FACTS.  The DNA evidence by itself proved Simpson guilty.  Not to Marsh however.  Simply frightening the crap Marsh attempts to sell on this forum.


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"Life is not a problem to be solved.  It is a mystery to be lived".
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Offline  Geoff Nis
January 31, 2012, 04:34:17 AM

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My problem is not with the evidence you've quoted.  Only with the evidence you have not.

Everything in terms of physical evidence in the shooting of JFK and Tippitt points at Oswald.  Even though a good lawyer could make some holes, it would be unlikely that the media storm pointing every finger at Oswald would allow any jury to acquit him.

And on that basis, why on earth would a nightclub owner with known ties to organized crime suddenly grow a conscience (although the Kennedys had declared war on organized crime) and shoot Oswald dead while he's in transit?  How did the Dallas police let him in there?  How did he have a gun with him?

As logical as your argument as to Oswald's guilt is (and I agree that he was), the rationale for Ruby to kill him is pure lunacy - unless there was some other reason.  Is it speculation?  Sure.  But the alternative - that Ruby was suddenly a patriot - makes considerably less sense.

This whole situation interests me more and more as the time passes.
I have come to the conclusion that the removal of JFKs body from the State of Texas would have been an insurmountable problem for any prosecution of Oswald. I don't believe charges of killing the President would have succeeded. I wonder what was going on, being said, behind closed doors in Washington the night of Nvember 22nd, and that weekend? For they HAD to have known, what a giant sized screw up it was, taking the body out of Texas. I wonder what the AG/brother of JFK was thinking?
I've even considered that maybe our Government was behind Oswald's killing, because they knew he would get away with it, not to silence him.

Yes I know they still could get Oswald as a cop killer. I am focusing instead on what had to be some incredible shock waves in Washington. A level of anger by some, that has never been spoken of.


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"you're the cop, you figure it out"
-Lee H. Oswald to Dallas Police detectives, weekend
of 11-22-63.

"Part of the reason why we avoided talking about this thing, because every time you say something, somebody misinterprets what you say."
-James. J. Humes, excerpt of ARRB statement, 2-13-96
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