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 January 30, 2012, 12:46:21 PM
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"DR. BAXTER: Well, everything happened awfully fast, as you can imagine. You know, I forget exactly when I got there, what I did other than go straight to the airway with Dr. Carrico. And -- well, we did a few things, get Mrs. Kennedy out of the room, asked the nurse to take her out, looked at what the vital signs were, what was going IV, what catheter was in his urinary bladder, tube down his throat. Everything had been done including the -- Dr. Carrico had already given him corticosteroids. because of his history of being an Addisonian. As is already been mentioned, airway was a problem. Dr. Carrico said, I Just can't ventilate him, and Mack and I started working on what -- you know, what the problem was, the airway. None us at that time, I don't think, were !n any position to view the head injury.
And, in fact, I never saw anything above the scalp line, forehead line that I could comment on.
The other thing that was outstanding about it was he had huge hemorrages around his eyes, black eyes, if you will, from the force of the injury, & he had exopthalmos. His eyes were bulging & blood has gone into the periorbital tissue. And we immediately were working on why we couldn't ventilate him, and Ron was putting in a chest tube on one side. On the other side we stuck a needle in. A little air was obtained."
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This passage, from the ARRB testimony, should put to rest any question about wether or not there was a pneumothorax within Kennedy's chest cavity. Regardless of what has been stated (not by me) in the past, there is NOT air present in the normal chest cavity of any human being.
The autopsy staff noted discoloration and/or bruising of the top area of Kennedy's right lung, indicating some sort of injury to the lung tissue.
If you don't get it after reading this, then you likely never will.
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"you're the cop, you figure it out"
-Lee H. Oswald to Dallas Police detectives, weekend
of 11-22-63.
"Part of the reason why we avoided talking about this thing, because every time you say something, somebody misinterprets what you say."
-James. J. Humes, excerpt of ARRB statement, 2-13-96
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January 30, 2012, 03:58:00 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2201
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"DR. BAXTER: Well, everything happened awfully fast, as you can imagine. You know, I forget exactly when I got there, what I did other than go straight to the airway with Dr. Carrico. And -- well, we did a few things, get Mrs. Kennedy out of the room, asked the nurse to take her out, looked at what the vital signs were, what was going IV, what catheter was in his urinary bladder, tube down his throat. Everything had been done including the -- Dr. Carrico had already given him corticosteroids. because of his history of being an Addisonian. As is already been mentioned, airway was a problem. Dr. Carrico said, I Just can't ventilate him, and Mack and I started working on what -- you know, what the problem was, the airway. None us at that time, I don't think, were !n any position to view the head injury.
And, in fact, I never saw anything above the scalp line, forehead line that I could comment on.
The other thing that was outstanding about it was he had huge hemorrages around his eyes, black eyes, if you will, from the force of the injury, & he had exopthalmos. His eyes were bulging & blood has gone into the periorbital tissue. And we immediately were working on why we couldn't ventilate him, and Ron was putting in a chest tube on one side. On the other side we stuck a needle in. A little air was obtained."
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This passage, from the ARRB testimony, should put to rest any question about wether or not there was a pneumothorax within Kennedy's chest cavity. Regardless of what has been stated (not by me) in the past, there is NOT air present in the normal chest cavity of any human being.
The autopsy staff noted discoloration and/or bruising of the top area of Kennedy's right lung, indicating some sort of injury to the lung tissue.
If you don't get it after reading this, then you likely never will.
The autopsy found that doctors began and did not complete the insertion of tubes through the chest walls. Source: WC testimony of Cmdr James J. Humes Mr. DULLES - These are apparently exit wounds? Commander HUMES - Sir, these were knife wounds, these were incised wounds on either side of the chest, and I will give them in somewhat greater detail. These wounds were bilateral, they were situated on the anterior chest wall in the nipple line, and each were 2 cm. long in the transverse axis. The one on the right was situated 11 cm. above the nipple the one on the left was situated 11 cm. on the nipple, and the one on the right was 8 cm. above the nipple. Their intention was to incise through the President's chest to place tubes into his chest. We examined those wounds very carefully, and found that they, however, did not enter the chest cavity. They only went through the skin. I presume that as they were performing that procedure it was obvious that the President had died, and they didn't pursue this. End of quotation. Now do you care to discuss the other contradictions between the WC and the ARRB testimonies of Baxter? Herbert
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January 30, 2012, 06:30:45 PM
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Super Member
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Sure Herbert. Dr. Baxter stated a needle was inserted, not a chest tube. I don't contest that the incisions made with a scalpel did not enter the thoracic cavity.
Now, would you like to contest that, Herbert? I know eating crow sucks Herbert, I've done it a few times here myself. Most of us have, at one time or another. Right now it's your turn. Unless you can show that Dr. Baxter was lying. Good luck with that.
Insertion of a needle into the chest cavity that has its other end not connected by a tube to a sealed container causes a pneumothorax. For this reason doctors always connect the needle to the tube before insertion into the chest cavity. The force to insert the needle is considerable and is reduced to a manageable level by cutting a slit completely through the skin, fat and well into the muscle. This procedure leaves a thinner layer of tissue to be penetrated by the needle while maintaining an airtight seal between the needle and its surrounding tissue. As I pointed out earlier, Dr. Humes who carefully examined the incisions found no evidence of penetration deeper than the skin. In particular he found no penetration of the fat or the underlying muscle. So you have a long way to go to show that Baxter remembered that three decades earlier he forgot to disclose evidence of pneumothorax to the WC. Go luck, Geoff. I suggest that you compare the WC testimony of Baxter with his recall some thirty years later before the ARRB. Baxter told the ARRB, “None us at that time, I don't think, were !n any position to view the head injury. And, in fact, I never saw anything above the scalp line, forehead line that I could comment on.” Yet three decades earlier he told the WC, “. . . while the closed chest massage was going on, and we had an opportunity to look at his head wound then and saw that the damage was beyond hope, that is, in a word-literally the right side of his head had been blown off. With this and the observation that the cerebellum was present-a large quantity of brain was present on the cart . . .” Herbert
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January 30, 2012, 06:59:15 PM
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Super Member
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So, in summary, you think Dr. Baxter is a  , correct? Herbert, the needle and a chest tube are 2 different things. A needle by itself can relieve a pneumothorax. It is an accepted method for the relief of a trauma-induced pneumothorax. Inserting a needle does not cause a pneumothorax. I'd like to see you provide us all with proof of this ridiculous claim. Its incredible that you are still trying to save your self. But all you're going to do is get yourself in to a deeper hole.
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« Last Edit: January 30, 2012, 07:13:40 PM by Geoff Nis »
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January 30, 2012, 07:48:31 PM
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Super Member
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So, in summary, you think Dr. Baxter is a , correct? Herbert, the needle and a chest tube are 2 different things. A needle by itself can relieve a pneumothorax. It is an accepted method for the relief of a trauma-induced pneumothorax. Inserting a needle does not cause a pneumothorax. I'd like to see you provide us all with proof of this ridiculous claim. Its incredible that you are still trying to save your self. But all you're going to do is get yourself in to a deeper hole. Opening the chest cavity to atmosphere is the text book example of a pneumothorax. Obviously your understanding of pneumatics is lacking. Herbert
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January 30, 2012, 10:39:54 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 305
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Herbert
This is about medical science. Biological science. It has nothing to do with pneumatics. We are not machinery Herbert.
Nice to see someone "stick to their guns". Especially when correct! First off, having been Commanding Officer of the U.S. Army Special Forces Diving School, as well as having received training in "Advanced Diving Medicine" from one of the top DMO's (Diving Medical Officer) in the U.S. Navy, I am no "amateur" when it comes to pneumothorax experience. JFK most assuredly had one! Now, the only question being exactly how did he get it?????? Tom P.S. Those who recived the "publishings" can answer this question if they so desire.
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February 01, 2012, 06:42:45 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 305
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In event that it is of any assistance, it was in fact a "machine" that was responsible for having ultimately created the pneumothorax.
Coupled with a little human error added in!
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