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 January 27, 2012, 11:15:05 PM
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Newbie
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Lee Harvey Oswald if guilty must have had some pre thought and planning prior to the assassination but I am wondering with all the employees running around the TSBD how he could possibly know beforehand that there would be no one else on the 6th floor just at the right moment - as the president was coming past for him to take his shots. Sure he could count on many employees being outside watching the motorcade but he could not count on that eliminating all of them. Not everyone was a kennedy lover in texas. For for example what if the guys watching on the 5th floor had decided they would get a better view from the 6th or employees on the lower floors wanted a higher view. He just could not know prior where other employees would be so it seems he went through all the hassle of bringing his rifle just in case he managed to get himself alone on the 6th floor. Iit seems just too risky.. It just seems such a low percentage thing for him to expect although if he was guilty it paid off.
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February 01, 2012, 05:39:15 AM
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White or light blue. What part of that don't you get Miles? Oh, and if you look at the white t-shirt Oswald had on when his mug shot was taken, the collar is stretched out of shape quite a lot. If you were looking at it 6 floors above you, through dirty window glass, it would be easy to mistake it for an "open collar" if it was stretched out like that at the time.
Stretched during "War is Hell" I believe.
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Even the Lone Ranger had a partner!
Beware of geeks bearing gifs!
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February 02, 2012, 04:21:49 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2338
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Stretched during "War is Hell" I believe.
Certainly that is a possibility. But, who can say for sure?
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"you're the cop, you figure it out"
-Lee H. Oswald to Dallas Police detectives, weekend
of 11-22-63.
"Part of the reason why we avoided talking about this thing, because every time you say something, somebody misinterprets what you say."
-James. J. Humes, excerpt of ARRB statement, 2-13-96
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February 02, 2012, 04:29:17 PM
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Certainly that is a possibility. But, who can say for sure?
Everybody, with the exception of you. Better get back to throwing your gold ring down on a hard surface for two hours.
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February 02, 2012, 04:36:03 PM
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OK Miles, here we are, first you. Miles said:
"No.
Rowland is quite clear that he saw what appeared to him to be a shirt with an open collar. That is what he saw.
Brennan confirms a SHIRT, not a T-shirt."
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
So lets take a look, a real look Miles, not one of your half truth CT looks.
"Mr. SPECTER - All right.
I have a substitute photograph for you to mark. I am now showing you an identical scene on a photograph which has been heretofore marked as Commission Exhibit No. 354. Will you mark with an arrow as closely as possible to the point where you were standing?
Mr. ROWLAND - There is an elevator shaft below this second window on that building that comes through a sidewalk. I was about 5 feet to the left of it, about the third window or right here in this area.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark that a little more heavily, please?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. (Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - What time were you positioned?
Mr. ROWLAND - We got there about 5 after 12.
Mr. SPECTER - Did your position move at any time during the course of the next half hour?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. We did move to this corner, there were too many people on this comer.
Mr. SPECTER - You are indicating back to the corner of Houston and Main?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. Houston and Main there were too many crowds so we came back to this street here, Commerce is that right; no, Elm and Main. We came back to Elm and Main and figured it wouldn't be a very good vantage point because of the crowd there so we went back to where we were.
Mr. SPECTER - Where were you standing at the time the President's motorcade passed by you?
Mr. ROWLAND - At that position."
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Now you want to tell me that Arnold Rowland was looking through an open window at the shirt? You are wrong Miles. He was looking through at least 1 pane of dirty glass, and seeing how the window was halfway open, in part through 2 panes of dirty glass.
If you need help understanding it Miles, then maybe you should look at the Hughes film, which will give you a fairly close compatible view of what Rowland's view looked like.
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Next lets look at Howard Brennan Miles. He was perched on top of the retaining wall, directly across the street from the entrance of the TSBD.
"Mr. BELIN. Could you describe the man you saw in the window on the sixth floor?
Mr. BRENNAN. To my best description, a man in his early thirties, fair complexion, slender but neat, neat slender, possibly 5-foot 10.
Mr. BELIN. About what weight?
Mr. BRENNAN. Oh, at--I calculated, I think, from 160 to 170 pounds.
Mr. BELIN. A white man?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of clothes he was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. Light colored clothes, more of a khaki color.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the color of his hair?
Mr. BRENNAN. No. "
So, light colored clothes again. But, no specific color noted for the shirt Miles. He doesn't recall the hair color. But, now it is going to get worse for you Miles:
"Mr. BELIN. Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr. Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN. No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN. I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN. I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN. As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
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Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN. About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN. When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. BRENNAN. And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN. What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by security reasons for your family and yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness, my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN. Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN. Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN. If you would not have identified that man positively, might he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN. No. That had a great contributing factor--greater contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN. The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN. Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN. Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN. After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN. I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify him as being the same man.
Mr. BELIN. Was the man that you saw in the window firing the rifle the same man that you had seen earlier in the window, you said at least a couple of times, first stepping up and then going back?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir. "
So Miles, the man you are trying to use as evidence that Oswald couldn't be the guy up in the window, is the same guy who in fact positively identified Oswald, under oath, as being the assassin. He even qualifies it by saying he didn't do so initially, on Nov. 22nd, because he was frightened for his family of possible retaliation and harm.
Some of the garbage you spew forth is simply mind boggling Miles.
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 05:06:49 PM by Geoff Nis »
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February 02, 2012, 06:21:49 PM
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Super Member
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OK Miles, here we are, first you. Miles said:
"No.
Rowland is quite clear that he saw what appeared to him to be a shirt with an open collar. That is what he saw.
Brennan confirms a SHIRT, not a T-shirt."
OK Miles, here we are, first you. Miles said: "No. Rowland is quite clear that he saw what appeared to him to be a shirt with an open collar. That is what he saw. Brennan confirms a SHIRT, not a T-shirt."
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the specific color of any shirt that the man with the rifle was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. No, other than light, and a khaki color--maybe in khaki. I mean other than light color--not a real white shirt, in other words. If it was a white shirt, it was on the dingy side.
Mr. BELIN. I am handing you what the court reporter has marked as Commission Exhibit 150.
Does this look like it might or might not be the shirt, or can you make at this time any positive identification of any kind?
Mr. BRENNAN. I would have expected it to be a little lighter--a shade or so lighter.
Mr. BELIN. Than Exhibit 150?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the best of my recollection. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ So lets take a look, a real look Miles, not one of your half truth CT looks. Now you want to tell me that Arnold Rowland was looking through an open window at the shirt? You are wrong Miles. He was looking through at least 1 pane of dirty glass, and seeing how the window was halfway open, in part through 2 panes of dirty glass. If you need help understanding it Miles, then maybe you should look at the Hughes film, which will give you a fairly close compatible view of what Rowland's view looked like. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Your statements are completely false, as usual.
As usual you don't know what you are talking about.
LOOK:<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> So Miles, the man you are trying to use as evidence that Oswald couldn't be the guy up in the window, is the same guy who in fact positively identified Oswald, under oath, as being the assassin. He even qualifies it by saying he didn't do so initially, on Nov. 22nd, because he was frightened for his family of possible retaliation and harm.
Brennan did not identify Oswald as the man he saw, until later when under pressure and inducement.
Why would Brennan fear retaliation from Oswald when Oswald was in police custody?  
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the specific color of any shirt that the man with the rifle was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. No, other than light, and a khaki color--maybe in khaki. I mean other than light color--not a real white shirt, in other words. If it was a white shirt, it was on the dingy side.
Mr. BELIN. I am handing you what the court reporter has marked as Commission Exhibit 150.
Does this look like it might or might not be the shirt, or can you make at this time any positive identification of any kind?
Mr. BRENNAN. I would have expected it to be a little lighter--a shade or so lighter.
Mr. BELIN. Than Exhibit 150?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is the best of my recollection.
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February 02, 2012, 07:01:44 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 8758
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Because Brennan declined to make a positive identification in the police lineup, the commission regarded Brennan's subsequent testimony, that he sincerely believed he saw Oswald, as probative but not conclusive evidence that Oswald was the gunman in the sixth floor window. In other words, even the corrupt WC could not swallow Brennan's BS. Rowland's view: 
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« Last Edit: February 02, 2012, 07:13:20 PM by Miles Scull »
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February 02, 2012, 08:12:22 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 442
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OK Miles, here we are, first you. Miles said:
"No.
Rowland is quite clear that he saw what appeared to him to be a shirt with an open collar. That is what he saw.
Brennan confirms a SHIRT, not a T-shirt."
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
So lets take a look, a real look Miles, not one of your half truth CT looks.
"Mr. SPECTER - All right.
I have a substitute photograph for you to mark. I am now showing you an identical scene on a photograph which has been heretofore marked as Commission Exhibit No. 354. Will you mark with an arrow as closely as possible to the point where you were standing?
Mr. ROWLAND - There is an elevator shaft below this second window on that building that comes through a sidewalk. I was about 5 feet to the left of it, about the third window or right here in this area.
Mr. SPECTER - Will you mark that a little more heavily, please?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. (Witness marking.)
Mr. SPECTER - What time were you positioned?
Mr. ROWLAND - We got there about 5 after 12.
Mr. SPECTER - Did your position move at any time during the course of the next half hour?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. We did move to this corner, there were too many people on this comer.
Mr. SPECTER - You are indicating back to the corner of Houston and Main?
Mr. ROWLAND - Yes. Houston and Main there were too many crowds so we came back to this street here, Commerce is that right; no, Elm and Main. We came back to Elm and Main and figured it wouldn't be a very good vantage point because of the crowd there so we went back to where we were.
Mr. SPECTER - Where were you standing at the time the President's motorcade passed by you?
Mr. ROWLAND - At that position."
*****************************************************************************
Now you want to tell me that Arnold Rowland was looking through an open window at the shirt? You are wrong Miles. He was looking through at least 1 pane of dirty glass, and seeing how the window was halfway open, in part through 2 panes of dirty glass.
If you need help understanding it Miles, then maybe you should look at the Hughes film, which will give you a fairly close compatible view of what Rowland's view looked like.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Next lets look at Howard Brennan Miles. He was perched on top of the retaining wall, directly across the street from the entrance of the TSBD.
"Mr. BELIN. Could you describe the man you saw in the window on the sixth floor?
Mr. BRENNAN. To my best description, a man in his early thirties, fair complexion, slender but neat, neat slender, possibly 5-foot 10.
Mr. BELIN. About what weight?
Mr. BRENNAN. Oh, at--I calculated, I think, from 160 to 170 pounds.
Mr. BELIN. A white man?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what kind of clothes he was wearing?
Mr. BRENNAN. Light colored clothes, more of a khaki color.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember the color of his hair?
Mr. BRENNAN. No. "
So, light colored clothes again. But, no specific color noted for the shirt Miles. He doesn't recall the hair color. But, now it is going to get worse for you Miles:
"Mr. BELIN. Now, taking you down to the Dallas Police Station, I believe you said you talked to Captain Fritz. And then what happened?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I was just more or less introduced to him in Mr. Sorrels' room, and they told me they were going to conduct a lineup and wanted me to view it, which I did.
Mr. BELIN. Do you remember how many people were in the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN. No; I don't. A possibility seven more or less one.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Did you see anyone in the lineup you recognized?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. And what did you say?
Mr. BRENNAN. I told Mr. Sorrels and Captain Fritz at that time that Oswald--or the man in the lineup that I identified looking more like a closest resemblance to the man in the window than anyone in the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. Were the other people in the lineup, do you remember--were they all white, or were there some Negroes in there, or what?
Mr. BRENNAN. I do not remember.
Mr. BELIN. As I understand your testimony, then, you said that you told him that this particular person looked the most like the man you saw on the sixth floor of the building there.
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN. In the meantime, had you seen any pictures of Lee Harvey Oswald on television or in the newspapers?
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Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, on television.
Mr. BELIN. About when was that, do you believe?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe I reached home quarter to three or something of that, 15 minutes either way, and I saw his picture twice on television before I went down to the police station for the lineup.
Mr. BELIN. Now, is there anything else you told the officers at the time of the lineup?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, I told them I could not make a positive identification.
Mr. BELIN. When you told them that, did you ever later tell any officer or investigating person anything different?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes.
Mr. BELIN. When did that happen?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe some days later--I don't recall exactly--and I believe the Secret Service man identified hisself as being Williams, I believe, from Houston. I won't swear to that-whether his name was Williams or not.
Mr. BELIN. All right.
Mr. BRENNAN. And he could have been an FBI. As far as I remember, it could have been FBI instead of Secret Service.
But I believe it was a Secret Service man from Houston.
And I--
Mr. BELIN. What did he say to you and what did you say to him?
Mr. BRENNAN. Well, he asked me he said, "You said you couldn't make a positive identification."
He said, "Did you do that for security reasons personally, or couldn't you?"
And I told him I could with all honesty, but I did it more or less for security reasons--my family and myself.
Mr. BELIN. What do you mean by security reasons for your family and yourself?
Mr. BRENNAN. I believe at that time, and I still believe it was a Communist activity, and I felt like there hadn't been more than one eyewitness, and if it got to be a known fact that I was an eyewitness, my family or I, either one, might not be safe.
Mr. BELIN. Well, if you wouldn't have identified him, might he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN. Beg pardon?
Mr. BELIN. If you would not have identified that man positively, might he not have been released by the police?
Mr. BRENNAN. No. That had a great contributing factor--greater contributing factor than my personal reasons was that I already knew they had the man for murder, and I knew he would not be released.
Mr. BELIN. The murder of whom?
Mr. BRENNAN. Of Officer Tippit.
Mr. BELIN. Well, what happened in between to change your mind that you later decided to come forth and tell them you could identify him?
Mr. BRENNAN. After Oswald was killed, I was relieved quite a bit that as far as pressure on myself of somebody not wanting me to identify anybody, there was no longer that immediate danger.
Mr. BELIN. What is the fact as to whether or not your having seen Oswald on television would have affected your identification of him one way or the other?
Mr. BRENNAN. That is something I do not know.
Mr. BELIN. Mr. Brennan, could you tell us now whether you can or cannot positively identify the man you saw on the sixth floor window as the same man that you saw in the police station?
Mr. BRENNAN. I could at that time I could, with all sincerity, identify him as being the same man.
Mr. BELIN. Was the man that you saw in the window firing the rifle the same man that you had seen earlier in the window, you said at least a couple of times, first stepping up and then going back?
Mr. BRENNAN. Yes, sir. "
So Miles, the man you are trying to use as evidence that Oswald couldn't be the guy up in the window, is the same guy who in fact positively identified Oswald, under oath, as being the assassin. He even qualifies it by saying he didn't do so initially, on Nov. 22nd, because he was frightened for his family of possible retaliation and harm.
Some of the garbage you spew forth is simply mind boggling Miles.
Seriously? The line-ups? You've got to be joking. Those line-ups were nothing more than a fool's parade . Let's look at all the participants. Oh and by the way , if I ever held a line-up akin to any of these which any scumbag ambulance chaser would have been able to have thrown out of court I would have been directing traffic for my entire career: Lee Harvey Oswald, the suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of Patrolman J D Tippit. Age 24, 5'9" tall, weight 131 pounds, brown hair, grey eyes, wearing a brown shirt and dark trousers. (He changed to a white tee-shirt for the final parade.) He had a black eye and cuts to his forehead and lip. According to Detective Boyd, Oswald's clothes were "a little rougher in character" than the others and the others were "better dressed than Oswald". It is on record (an FBI report reproduced on page 625 of the Warren Report) that during an FBI interview on 23rd, "Oswald complained of a lineup wherein he had not been granted a request to put on a jacket similar to those worn by some of the other individuals in the lineup." William E Perry, an Acting Detective with the DPD Vice Squad. Late 20s, 5'11", 150 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes, medium fair complexion. Wearing brown sports coat, no tie. Commission Exhibit 1054 shows two photographs of Perry with the next two gentlemen I describe. Richard L Clark, a DPD Vice Squad Detective. Late 20s, 5'11", weighed about 177 pounds, blond hair, blue eyes, fair complexion. Wearing red vest (for the benefit of my fellow Brits, that means waistcoat), white short-sleeved shirt, brown trousers with belt. This man was very blond, two inches taller than Oswald and 46 pounds heavier! Don R. Ables, a civilian Jail Clerk employed by the DPD at City Hall. Ables was in his mid 20s, 5'9" tall, weighed around 165 pounds, and had dark hair, brown eyes and a ruddy complexion. On each of the three lineups he attended, he wore a white shirt, a grey-knit sweater and dark trousers. (7H 239-242). There is an individual photograph of Ables at Commission Exhibit 745. Richard Walter Borchgardt, a remand prisoner being held on suspicion of firearms, burglary and theft offences. He was 23 years old, 5'9", 161 pounds and had brown hair, blue eyes and a fair complexion. Ellis Carl Brazel, another prisoner, on remand for motoring offences. He was 21 years old, 5'10", 169 pounds and had blond hair, green eyes and a ruddy complexion. John Thurman Horne, also on remand for motoring offences. He was 18 years old. Other details not known. David Edmond Knapp, another prisoner, on remand on suspicion of burglary and theft. He was also 18 years old. No other details. Daniel Gutierrez Lujan, another prisoner, arrested on 21st November on suspicion of narcotics offences. He was 26 years old., 5'8", 170 pounds and had black hair, brown eyes and an olive complexion. He confirmed that he was of Mexican descent. This man was an inch shorter than Oswald but nearly 40 pounds heavier!
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I went to a hockey game and a JFK Assassination Forum discussion broke out!
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February 03, 2012, 08:22:29 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 9052
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Seriously? The line-ups? You've got to be joking. Those line-ups were nothing more than a fool's parade . Let's look at all the participants. Oh and by the way , if I ever held a line-up akin to any of these which any scumbag ambulance chaser would have been able to have thrown out of court I would have been directing traffic for my entire career:
Lee Harvey Oswald, the suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy and the murder of Patrolman J D Tippit. Age 24, 5'9" tall, weight 131 pounds, brown hair, grey eyes, wearing a brown shirt and dark trousers. (He changed to a white tee-shirt for the final parade.) He had a black eye and cuts to his forehead and lip. According to Detective Boyd, Oswald's clothes were "a little rougher in character" than the others and the others were "better dressed than Oswald". It is on record (an FBI report reproduced on page 625 of the Warren Report) that during an FBI interview on 23rd, "Oswald complained of a lineup wherein he had not been granted a request to put on a jacket similar to those worn by some of the other individuals in the lineup."
William E Perry, an Acting Detective with the DPD Vice Squad. Late 20s, 5'11", 150 pounds, brown hair, blue eyes, medium fair complexion. Wearing brown sports coat, no tie. Commission Exhibit 1054 shows two photographs of Perry with the next two gentlemen I describe.
Richard L Clark, a DPD Vice Squad Detective. Late 20s, 5'11", weighed about 177 pounds, blond hair, blue eyes, fair complexion. Wearing red vest (for the benefit of my fellow Brits, that means waistcoat), white short-sleeved shirt, brown trousers with belt. This man was very blond, two inches taller than Oswald and 46 pounds heavier!
Don R. Ables, a civilian Jail Clerk employed by the DPD at City Hall. Ables was in his mid 20s, 5'9" tall, weighed around 165 pounds, and had dark hair, brown eyes and a ruddy complexion. On each of the three lineups he attended, he wore a white shirt, a grey-knit sweater and dark trousers. (7H 239-242). There is an individual photograph of Ables at Commission Exhibit 745.
Richard Walter Borchgardt, a remand prisoner being held on suspicion of firearms, burglary and theft offences. He was 23 years old, 5'9", 161 pounds and had brown hair, blue eyes and a fair complexion.
Ellis Carl Brazel, another prisoner, on remand for motoring offences. He was 21 years old, 5'10", 169 pounds and had blond hair, green eyes and a ruddy complexion.
John Thurman Horne, also on remand for motoring offences. He was 18 years old. Other details not known.
David Edmond Knapp, another prisoner, on remand on suspicion of burglary and theft. He was also 18 years old. No other details.
Daniel Gutierrez Lujan, another prisoner, arrested on 21st November on suspicion of narcotics offences. He was 26 years old., 5'8", 170 pounds and had black hair, brown eyes and an olive complexion. He confirmed that he was of Mexican descent. This man was an inch shorter than Oswald but nearly 40 pounds heavier!
I feel that you're missing the point. The witnesses attending the lineups weren't asked to pick the man who most resembles the man they saw shoot Tippit. No. These witnesses were asked if the man who they saw shoot the officer was present. He was.
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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
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February 03, 2012, 09:26:59 AM
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Posts: 8758
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I feel that you're missing the point. The witnesses attending the lineups weren't asked to pick the man who most resembles the man they saw shoot Tippit. No. These witnesses were asked if the man who they saw shoot the officer was present. He was.
No. He was not. He had the wrong colored shirt on. Try to pay attention.
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