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 January 27, 2012, 11:15:05 PM
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Newbie
Posts: 4
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Lee Harvey Oswald if guilty must have had some pre thought and planning prior to the assassination but I am wondering with all the employees running around the TSBD how he could possibly know beforehand that there would be no one else on the 6th floor just at the right moment - as the president was coming past for him to take his shots. Sure he could count on many employees being outside watching the motorcade but he could not count on that eliminating all of them. Not everyone was a kennedy lover in texas. For for example what if the guys watching on the 5th floor had decided they would get a better view from the 6th or employees on the lower floors wanted a higher view. He just could not know prior where other employees would be so it seems he went through all the hassle of bringing his rifle just in case he managed to get himself alone on the 6th floor. Iit seems just too risky.. It just seems such a low percentage thing for him to expect although if he was guilty it paid off.
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January 27, 2012, 11:19:26 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 143
That phrase at the beginning of "The X-Files"...
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Lee Harvey Oswald if guilty must have had some pre thought and planning prior to the assassination but I am wondering with all the employees running around the TSBD how he could possibly know beforehand that there would be no one else on the 6th floor just at the right moment - as the president was coming past for him to take his shots. Sure he could count on many employees being outside watching the motorcade but he could not count on that eliminating all of them. Not everyone was a kennedy lover in texas. For for example what if the guys watching on the 5th floor had decided they would get a better view from the 6th or employees on the lower floors wanted a higher view. He just could not know prior where other employees would be so it seems he went through all the hassle of bringing his rifle just in case he managed to get himself alone on the 6th floor. Iit seems just too risky.. It just seems such a low percentage thing for him to expect although if he was guilty it paid off.
Actually, this is a very good point. I think he did do it, though....but I think it does highlight just how meticulously he would have had to plan to successfully be a lone gunman. He's either the assassin of all time, or he had a lot of help.
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January 27, 2012, 11:53:35 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2568
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Nice line here Scott... I've been promoting the idea that Oswald could NOT have been on a 12:30 - limo passes the TSBD timeline... unless he knew some facts I've asked a number of times what the man's plan was... where was the rifle in the bag that he retrieved and got to the 6th floor.... when, if he was seen at 12:15 by Carolyn Arnold, was this killer planning to get up there? So I asked myself what he could have known about the arrival time if he was a complete LN.... Here's the VIP invite  the papers and reports all said arrival at 11:30 at Love... 12:15 at Trade Mart... except the radio announces they are late... they actually leave Love at 11:55 and would actually pass the TSBD at 12:30... yet who is seen on the 6th floor and when? men with rifles at 12:15 AT THE WINDOWS and then disappearing into the darkness until... 12:30. So Scott... wouldn't it be great if those that supported the WCR explained this timeline for Oswald... and cross reference it with testimony from Givens or Dougherty related to who was where on the 5th and 6th floors.. Then add in that Sawyer and an ATF agent keep saying the rifle was ont he 5th floor and moved to the 6th.... and the WCR supporters have their work cut out... me thinks... ya? 
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January 28, 2012, 12:09:48 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 3791
Well, somebody did it.
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Not such a big deal, everyone was going to watch whatever time it was so the timing isn't hard to accomplish really. He also had a choice to shoot from another floor like the seventh, he didn't plan on getting away he could have shot from the perch on the sixth also and it would have been over before he was caught,and its no mistake that the motorcade goes through downtown at lunchtime, wouldn't you plan it that way if you wanted the best crowds ?
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LN; So how did it happen then ?
CT; I don't know, I only know that it didn't happen the way the evidence says.
LN; We should not use evidence in this case ?
CT; Correct.
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January 28, 2012, 12:11:18 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 1904
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Lee Harvey Oswald if guilty must have had some pre thought and planning prior to the assassination but I am wondering with all the employees running around the TSBD how he could possibly know beforehand that there would be no one else on the 6th floor just at the right moment - as the president was coming past for him to take his shots. Sure he could count on many employees being outside watching the motorcade but he could not count on that eliminating all of them. Not everyone was a kennedy lover in texas. For for example what if the guys watching on the 5th floor had decided they would get a better view from the 6th or employees on the lower floors wanted a higher view. He just could not know prior where other employees would be so it seems he went through all the hassle of bringing his rifle just in case he managed to get himself alone on the 6th floor. Iit seems just too risky.. It just seems such a low percentage thing for him to expect although if he was guilty it paid off.
This highlights how circumstantial the case against Oswald really is when it comes to putting him up on the 6th floor. Rifle, cases and prints. Can those 3 be planted? If so by who and why?
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January 28, 2012, 12:15:07 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 1627
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Not such a big deal, everyone was going to watch whatever time it was so the timing isn't hard to accomplish really. He also had a choice to shoot from another floor like the seventh...
This all sounds too familiar ...  "......since we know Oswald killed him. How he managed to get there in time to do it would only have academic value" V. Bugliosi
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"Good Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions." Jerry Falwell " I'm not  " T Winky
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January 28, 2012, 12:20:55 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2338
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He worked in the building. Thats how he got there on time. He was on time at 8am that morning.
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"you're the cop, you figure it out"
-Lee H. Oswald to Dallas Police detectives, weekend
of 11-22-63.
"Part of the reason why we avoided talking about this thing, because every time you say something, somebody misinterprets what you say."
-James. J. Humes, excerpt of ARRB statement, 2-13-96
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January 28, 2012, 01:02:25 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 9052
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I don't really have an exact timeline (for Oswald) worked out in my head. Shelley saw Oswald on the first floor at around 11:45. Oswald probably heads up to the sixth floor a little bit after that. I do not believe that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the lunchroom around 12:15. By noon (probably a little earlier), Oswald is up on the sixth floor, alone. This is when Oswald assembles the rifle. One possibility is that while Oswald is already positioned inside the sniper's nest, Bonnie Williams comes up to the sixth floor. Williams eats his lunch in front of the set of windows beside the sniper's nest while Oswald sits quietly nearby. By 12:15 to 12:20, Williams leaves the sixth floor and Oswald is alone again. Another possibility is that Oswald debated on shooting from the southWEST window versus the southEAST sniper's nest window. I believe the man seen in that southWEST window with a rifle is undoubtedly Oswald. Oswald could have been in and/or around that southWEST window at the same time that Bonnie Williams was a visitor on the sixth floor. Photos from that day show the southWEST window opened in the same manner as the sniper's nest window.
I realize that this conflicts with some witness testimony pertaining to timing, but I don't put much weight on approximate timing when other physical evidence shows me that Oswald was in the sniper's nest with the rifle.
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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
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January 28, 2012, 01:43:12 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2196
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I don't really have an exact timeline (for Oswald) worked out in my head. Shelley saw Oswald on the first floor at around 11:45. Oswald probably heads up to the sixth floor a little bit after that. I do not believe that Carolyn Arnold saw Oswald in the lunchroom around 12:15. By noon (probably a little earlier), Oswald is up on the sixth floor, alone. This is when Oswald assembles the rifle. One possibility is that while Oswald is already positioned inside the sniper's nest, Bonnie Williams comes up to the sixth floor. Williams eats his lunch in front of the set of windows beside the sniper's nest while Oswald sits quietly nearby. By 12:15 to 12:20, Williams leaves the sixth floor and Oswald is alone again. Another possibility is that Oswald debated on shooting from the southWEST window versus the southEAST sniper's nest window. I believe the man seen in that southWEST window with a rifle is undoubtedly Oswald. Oswald could have been in and/or around that southWEST window at the same time that Bonnie Williams was a visitor on the sixth floor. Photos from that day show the southWEST window opened in the same manner as the sniper's nest window.
I realize that this conflicts with some witness testimony pertaining to timing, but I don't put much weight on approximate timing when other physical evidence shows me that Oswald was in the sniper's nest with the rifle.
Billdo, you're too funny! Let's see now, Shelley is a GOOD witness (11:45) but Arnold is a BAD witness (12:15). Gawd, Billdo, you're like a little kid playing eenie meenie minie mo.  And Williams never spots Oswald on the 6th floor because, let me guess, Oswald is wearing his "cardboard box" camo that day. LOL Or was Williams deaf and blind? Oswald assembles the rifle at noon? Or earlier? Not a chance! Unless, as I said, Williams was deaf and blind. Besides, if JFK was supposed to be at the Trade Mart at 12:15, he would be passing through Dealey Plaza at noon. Do you think Oswald had a radio with him? {quote} "I realize that this conflicts with some witness testimony pertaining to timing, but I don't put much weight on approximate timing when other physical evidence shows me that Oswald was in the sniper's nest with the rifle." {end quote} Spoken like a true LN'er, Billdo. Don't let a little thing like evidence stand in your way.
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"He was always cold but the land of gold, seemed to hold him like a spell
Though he'd often say, in his homely way, that he'd "sooner live in Hell" "
~~Robert W. Service~~
"Never have discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room."
~~Sir Winston Churchill~~
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January 28, 2012, 01:50:40 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 614
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Mr. BALL. Why did you go to the sixth floor?
Mr. [BONNIE RAY] WILLIAMS. Well, at the time everybody was talking like they was going to watch from the sixth floor. I think Billy Lovelady said he wanted to watch from up there. And also my friend; this Spanish boy, by the name of Danny Arce, we had agreed at first to come back up to the sixth floor. So I thought everybody was going to be on the sixth floor.
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Yest nut aftre nut reads stuf like that and go with it. I figured you wouldn't be smart enough to see the problem.
- Brian Walker.
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January 28, 2012, 03:05:33 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 3634
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Lee Harvey Oswald if guilty must have had some pre thought and planning prior to the assassination but I am wondering with all the employees running around the TSBD how he could possibly know beforehand that there would be no one else on the 6th floor just at the right moment - as the president was coming past for him to take his shots. Sure he could count on many employees being outside watching the motorcade but he could not count on that eliminating all of them. Not everyone was a kennedy lover in texas. For for example what if the guys watching on the 5th floor had decided they would get a better view from the 6th or employees on the lower floors wanted a higher view. He just could not know prior where other employees would be so it seems he went through all the hassle of bringing his rifle just in case he managed to get himself alone on the 6th floor. Iit seems just too risky.. It just seems such a low percentage thing for him to expect although if he was guilty it paid off.
He didn't know beforehand. I don't get why this is a big issue. We know someone shot from the 6th floor. How would anyone know? It would be a bigger risk if it was someone involved in a conspiracy on the 6th floor actually trying to get away with the murder. It would be totally unbelievable to think someone involved in a conspiracy would risk it, when their goal is to get away. I think alot more unbeleivable would be for someone to set Oswald up and not know where he and the other emplyees would be at the time. There is no way anyone would try that if they wanted to get away with murder. It would be more unbelievable for this big conspiracy plot to count on nobody taking pictures or a movie of the 6th floor at the time. The whole thing screams of a lone nut who already decided to give up his life for the President's.
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What is silly is thinking that two turns that reduced the speed of the car to 8-11 m.p.h. is no big deal when motorcades are suppose to keep a 44 m.p.h. speed..R Caprio
LHO had poor hand-eye coordination and proof of this is seen in the fact he couldn't drive an automobile-- R Caprio
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January 28, 2012, 03:35:39 AM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 457
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Lee Harvey Oswald if guilty must have had some pre thought and planning prior to the assassination but I am wondering with all the employees running around the TSBD how he could possibly know beforehand that there would be no one else on the 6th floor just at the right moment - as the president was coming past for him to take his shots. Sure he
could count on many employees being outside watching the motorcade but he could not count on that eliminating all of them. Not everyone was a kennedy lover in texas. For for example what if the guys watching on the 5th floor had decided they would get a better view from the 6th or employees on the lower floors wanted a higher view. He just could not know prior where other employees would be so it seems he went through all the hassle of bringing his rifle just in case he managed to get himself alone on the 6th floor. Iit seems just too risky.. It just seems such a low percentage thing for him to expect although if he was guilty it paid off.
You guys always try to prescribe some sort of rational thought process to Oswald's actions. Why? He doesn't have to know that the opportunity would arise...he could of just as easily came prepared "just in case". Which is probably the most likely scenario. Also, any shooter in the 6th floor would face the same problems Oswald did about not having a clear floor to execute his plan. If you believe that rules out Oswald, then it rules out everyone. Also, also...so many on here will believe multiple shooters existed on the sixth without a single TSBD employee seeing them. Yet, somehow, it was supposedly impossible for good Ol Oz to do the deed and not be seen. Looks like we need some consistent standards from the Oswald apologists out there.
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