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 January 10, 2012, 05:07:03 PM
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Geof Nis (odd name) and others claim that the person we see in the last couple of Z-frames sitting upright in his seat is John Connally. thread: As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginI doubted that and think it is JFK whose dead body was pushed up by Jackie after she climbed back into the car. After I looked closer at the Z film, the MPI medium zoomed version, I am not so sure anymore. It looks as if it is indeed Connally. I have stabilized the Z frames starting with Z-221, that is when Connally is first visible after the limo reappeared from behind the roadsign. The focus is on Connally's face. His face is always in the center of the video frame (not of the Z-film). The "anchor" so to say is Connally's head/face. You can check it by placing your mouse cursor over his head and leave it there, the cursor is always on his head. Since a GIF animation is way to large I put together a video an uploaded it to YouTube. I am still undecided, I think it is possible that after we lose Connally for a couple of frames when he disappears behind the Turnpike roadsign he was going down in his seat completely and JFK was pushed up by Jackie by then. Here is the Video: <![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> PS: the center of the crosshairs I have added represents the exact center of the videoframe (not the center of the Z-film).
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"ich bin ein Berliner" As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login"There's none so blind as those who will not see."
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January 21, 2012, 12:27:28 PM
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re the haircolor, I measured the RGB values for JFK and Connally's hair, here are the results: MPI Z228, JFK:  MPI Z228, Connally:  MPI Z452, "A" head:  MPI Z464, "A" head:  MPI Z464, hairs IMO belonging to a person sitting in front of "the head":  JFK's RGB values for his hair all range within the 40 region, Connally's are all way up in the 70s and beyond. boing
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January 21, 2012, 02:57:24 PM
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What i see in the circle in the GIF above, looks to me like some ones "back and shoulders" as they lean backwards. similar to this position.  Just for the record. I could care less if it is Connally or Kennedy. if i could see it as kennedy, i wouldn't have a problem saying so, or changing my mind. I don't start with a "pet theory" and then try to make the images fit my theory. Where ever the images take me is the only result i am interested in. ( I am a fence sitter, and have been for 10 - years ) If there was a Conspiracy, so be it. If Oswald did it alone. so be it Makes no difference to me. Robin, I am with you on this, I don't exclude the possibility that it could be Connally, although the more I look into it the more I tend to believe it is actually JFK we see and not Connally. Why is it important to know ? I think if we can seriously work out who that individual actually is it just adds a piece to the mosaic. You make a valid point that nobody saw JFK sitting upright at that time. David Jpseph cited the Hudson testimony and I can't find it atm, and (If I remember correctly) Hudson said something to the effect that he saw JFK sit upright after he was hit in the head. Rick, I think you outlined it pretty well,  I agree with it in as much that I think JFK's head is rotated away from the camera, just slightly, but it generally matches to how I see it. MPI Z443 are these two shoulders we see ? 
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January 21, 2012, 06:45:17 PM
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Robin, I am with you on this, I don't exclude the possibility that it could be Connally, although the more I look into it the more I tend to believe it is actually JFK we see and not Connally. Why is it important to know ? I think if we can seriously work out who that individual actually is it just adds a piece to the mosaic. You make a valid point that nobody saw JFK sitting upright at that time. David Jpseph cited the Hudson testimony and I can't find it atm, and (If I remember correctly) Hudson said something to the effect that he saw JFK sit upright after he was hit in the head. Rick, I think you outlined it pretty well, I agree with it in as much that I think JFK's head is rotated away from the camera, just slightly, but it generally matches to how I see it. MPI Z443 are these two shoulders we see ? I agree with it in as much that I think JFK's head is rotated away from the camera, just slightly, but it generally matches to how I see it. I see JFK's head rotated slightly away from the camera too  Something like that is difficult to represent when doing an outline. My outline was quick and dirty and I don't like doing them. But seeing how Mr. Mytton has difficulties seeing colors, I felt it necessary to do one 
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« Last Edit: January 21, 2012, 06:50:10 PM by Rick Needham »
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But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people- John F. Kennedy
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January 21, 2012, 09:50:25 PM
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I have started the process of Re - "Uploading" the MPI FRAMES ( Medium Zoomed Version ) LARGE 1080 X 720 As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginRobin Thanks for the taking the time to post these Zapruder frames, they have great detail. JohnM
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January 22, 2012, 11:24:53 PM
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Ditto. Re. I couldn’t care who in many ways. However it's good to see informed constructive debate.
I do need some help from those with computerised maps/recreations, with the following please (as I only use pencil, paper and a ruler).
Can someone please confirm/clarify/correct the following, as I think Gerda was asking for map/distance to TUP: I have Z313 to Z442, JFK has moved 176 ft in 7.05 seconds . Z313 to TUP entrance is 9.45 secs (Z486) and 242ft (ie when front car enters TUP not JFK). Also @ Z442, The Limo is 38 degrees to camera , (I’ve assumed Limo is moving from middle lane into lane nearest camera) therefore agree with Rick (re JFK. would be slightly more to left etc, again I’m only using pencil and paper). This thread is very thought provoking in my opinion as I’m attempting; as a complete newbie, to visit the split timings to TUP. I had always assumed totally incorrectly that Greer had floored it up to about 50+mph. (I assume it’s all been done, however I’m enjoying myself, my initial calcs suggest either the Limo was misfiring (no pun intended) or Greer had a brick under the gas pedal) . I’ve searched posts, apologies if this has all been covered, if it has can you point me in the right direction ? (or a URL)
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January 23, 2012, 04:07:02 AM
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Very interesting material being presented here. The real fly in the ointment, however, and what I'm sure is bothering everyone else here, is the impossible image of JFK sitting with his head erect.
We know he had his back brace on and that would account for some of the erectness. Is it possible that the "neurospasm" that caused him to go back and to his left, at Z313, inflicted some form of temporary rigor over his entire body, neck muscles included? If he was "stiff as a board" for some amount of time on the way to Parkland Hospital, this would also explain the apparent ease Jackie had in pushing him upright after she got back into her seat.
Thank God above he is still not waving with his right hand. That would REALLY freak me out.
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"He was always cold but the land of gold, seemed to hold him like a spell
Though he'd often say, in his homely way, that he'd "sooner live in Hell" "
~~Robert W. Service~~
"Never have discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room."
~~Sir Winston Churchill~~
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January 23, 2012, 11:30:56 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2355
Germany
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Ditto. Re. I couldn’t care who in many ways. However it's good to see informed constructive debate.
I do need some help from those with computerised maps/recreations, with the following please (as I only use pencil, paper and a ruler).
Can someone please confirm/clarify/correct the following, as I think Gerda was asking for map/distance to TUP: I have Z313 to Z442, JFK has moved 176 ft in 7.05 seconds . Z313 to TUP entrance is 9.45 secs (Z486) and 242ft (ie when front car enters TUP not JFK). Also @ Z442, The Limo is 38 degrees to camera , (I’ve assumed Limo is moving from middle lane into lane nearest camera) therefore agree with Rick (re JFK. would be slightly more to left etc, again I’m only using pencil and paper). This thread is very thought provoking in my opinion as I’m attempting; as a complete newbie, to visit the split timings to TUP. I had always assumed totally incorrectly that Greer had floored it up to about 50+mph. (I assume it’s all been done, however I’m enjoying myself, my initial calcs suggest either the Limo was misfiring (no pun intended) or Greer had a brick under the gas pedal) . I’ve searched posts, apologies if this has all been covered, if it has can you point me in the right direction ? (or a URL)
Hello Peter, thanks for your input Also @ Z442, The Limo is 38 degrees to camera how did you reach that conclusion ? It would be nice if someone with more CAD experience would put a scale model of the limo onto the Cutler map. I don't have any experience with CAD.
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January 23, 2012, 08:06:48 PM
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Gerda. Very very basic, as I just wanted to see if < or > 45 degrees. (I'm sure someone can provide exact figure).
I assumed Zap was in centre of pedestal, and using a DRoberdeau map I drew line perpendicular to Main St from that point. I then penciled in Z442 position and drew a line where I thought the line/angle of side of Limo. I drew a triangle from point back to Zap and line to the line from Zap to Main. Measured length of these sides of triangle and used Cosine etc to calculate the 3 angles.
I used 85, 55 and 58 units, giving angles of 43.4, 98.7 and 37.9. I tried a few including 82,51 and 57, that all gave circa 40 degrees. Not exactly cutting edge science ! Again it depends on the movement/angle of Limo from middle lane into 'near'.
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« Last Edit: January 23, 2012, 08:09:24 PM by Peter Jackson »
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January 26, 2012, 10:32:31 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2355
Germany
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Robin, great frames, what was the source where you extracted the frames from ? This is an overly of Z454 and one of the SS re-enactment frames. I had to rotate the Z frame 1.8° anti clockwise and stretch the Z frame a bit in order to align with the fence. Gif ani: 
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