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 December 05, 2011, 07:20:09 PM
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Register or LoginTESTIMONY OF MR. AND MRS. JOHN B. CONNALLY, DALLAS, TEX
I heard--you know how we were seated in the car, the President and Mrs. Kennedy, John was in front of the President and I was seated in front of Mrs. Kennedy--I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands. Z223 He said nothing. He just sort of slumped down in the seat. John had turned to his right also when we heard that first noise and shouted, "no, no, no," and in the process of turning back around so that he could look back and see the President--I don't think he could see him when he turned to his right--the second shot was fired and hit him. Z? He was in the process of turning, so it hit him through this shoulder, came out right about here. His hand was either right in front of him or on his knee as he turned to look so that the bullet went through him, crushed his wrist and lodged in his leg. And then he just recoiled and just sort of slumped in his seat.
I thought he was dead. When you see a big man totally defenseless like that, then you do whatever you think you can do to help most and the only thing I could think of to do was to pull him down out of the line of fire, or whatever was happening to us and I thought if I could get him down, maybe they wouldn't hurt him anymore. So, I pulled him down in my lap.
We learned later--I read a lot of stories that upset me later because they said we slipped down into the floor, that John slid off, fell over into my lap. Those little jump seats were not very big and there was no way that he could have slid to the floor, there is no way either of us could have got to the floor.
The only thing I could do was pull him down and by leaning over him, I hoped if anything else happened, they wouldn't hurt him anymore. I never looked back after John was hit. I heard Mrs. Kennedy say, "they have shot my husband."
Then, I heard a third shot and felt matter cover us Z313 and she said, "They have killed my husband, I have his brains in my hand". I thought was John was dead, and I heard the Secret Service man say, "Let's get out of here quick." So, we pulled out of the motorcade and we must have been a horrible sight flying down that freeway with those dying men in our arms and going to no telling where. We just see the crowds flashing by.Now Z223 to Z313 is 90 frames on the Zapruder. 90 divided by 18.3 fps which is its running speed I think. (God I hope I haven't woken Fido up cause I got that wrong  ) is 4.92 seconds. That is what Mrs Connally is proposing. If she is wrong, where is she wrong? Could Oswald have got off 3 shots in that time span? As an exercise you could also try and solve Z? for Mrs Connally. My guess after watching Zapruder again was about Z290
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« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 07:24:25 PM by Paul Klein »
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December 05, 2011, 11:16:33 PM
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Okay Brian. In that case, which bullet missed according to her? I am hoping you are going to say the second cause the first and third are taken. But surprise me anyways by dismissing her whole testimony IMHO, Mrs Connally's shot recollection is backed up by what we see on Zapruder. She may have got her injuries all mixed up or she may even be correct about that, but as far as remembering the first and last shot, you can't fault her. We can see those shots on the Zapruder and time them. She claims there was a shot in between. Even if she is wrong, her first shot recollection is still Z223 on the Zapruder. Where is the physical evidence for a missed shot Brian? Don't say the 3 cartridges. I need more proof than that. Try and solve this before you go up to the TSBD to have a look. Paul, what makes you continually state that Nellie believed that the first noise that she heard was at Z-223?
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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
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December 05, 2011, 11:34:20 PM
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Paul, what makes you continually state that Nellie believed that the first noise that she heard was at Z-223?
-I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands. Z223What disturbing noise do you think she heard Bill if it wasn't a gunshot? Its in line with what she says about JFK being shot. Where do you think she means on Zapruder? Last time I checked, most of you guys reckon JFK was clutching at Z223. Are you saying she only really heard 2 shots or she got her order wrong?
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« Last Edit: December 05, 2011, 11:35:45 PM by Paul Klein »
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December 05, 2011, 11:49:44 PM
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-I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands. Z223
What disturbing noise do you think she heard Bill if it wasn't a gunshot? Its in line with what she says about JFK being shot. Where do you think she means on Zapruder? Last time I checked, most of you guys reckon JFK was clutching at Z223. Are you saying she only really heard 2 shots or she got her order wrong?
She said that she heard a noise that she didn't recognize as a gunshot. Many witnesses said this exact same thing about the first shot (Z-160 or so). How do you know that the noise that she heard isn't the first shot that occurred around Z-160 (roughly)? Her description of the way that shot sounded sure makes it seem that it is this early noise that she is speaking of. Then, within four seconds or so, she has turned around to see the President "clutching at his neck". Paul, to state, as if it were a fact, that Nellie said the first noise that she heard occurred at Z-223, is faulty and even a little misleading.
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December 06, 2011, 12:06:58 AM
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interesting question, someone said on this forum that Connally recognised frame 234 when he saw Zapruder's frames. Is it true?
If he was able to shout "no no they are killing us all", would that means that his lungs had no holes ? Mike william has a military past, he should be able to answer.
The type of wound to Connally's chest is referred to in medical terms as an "open pneumothorax" or "sucking" chest wound. In his case it would be termed a double open pneumothroax, as is typical of gunshot wounds to the chest. It is interesting that Connall survived the trip to Parkland Hospital as this type of wound interferes drastically with normal respiration and many patients will expire quickly from this type of wound, if someone does not act immediately to seal off the hole. That being said, it is not unheard of for a patient with an open pneumothorax to still be able to speak, although with difficulty. I do not recall seeing anywhere in his or Nellie's testimony that he "shouted". From what I understood, he spoke these words in a normal voice.
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 12:18:31 AM by Bob Prudhomme »
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"He was always cold but the land of gold, seemed to hold him like a spell
Though he'd often say, in his homely way, that he'd "sooner live in Hell" "
~~Robert W. Service~~
"Never have discussions with the monkey when the organ grinder is in the room."
~~Sir Winston Churchill~~
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December 06, 2011, 12:37:16 AM
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She said that she heard a noise that she didn't recognize as a gunshot. Many witnesses said this exact same thing about the first shot (Z-160 or so). How do you know that the noise that she heard isn't the first shot that occurred around Z-160 (roughly)? Her description of the way that shot sounded sure makes it seem that it is this early noise that she is speaking of. Then, within four seconds or so, she has turned around to see the President "clutching at his neck".
Paul, to state, as if it were a fact, that Nellie said the first noise that she heard occurred at Z-223, is faulty and even a little misleading.
When did she hear Z223 Bill? If the first shot she heard was at Z160 and then she turned around and saw JFK clutching 4 seconds later, how come she only heard one possible shot? She should have heard 2 now that JFK has been shot. The last 2 shots she claims she hears, are all after Z223. I am just going on her testimony Bill. Its only misleading if you believe in Z160, Z223 & Z313.
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December 06, 2011, 12:48:24 AM
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When did she hear Z223 Bill? If the first shot she heard was at Z160 and then she turned around and saw JFK clutching 4 seconds later, how come she only heard one possible shot? She should have heard 2 now that JFK has been shot. The last 2 shots she claims she hears, are all after Z223. I am just going on her testimony Bill. Its only misleading if you believe in Z160, Z223 & Z313.
For starters, you posted this:-I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands. Z223
Why did you add in the "223"? Nellie did not say "223", did she? No. Of course not. All she said was that she heard a noise which she didn't recognize as rifle fire. Many witnesses said the exact same thing about the early shot (the shot before 223). Then, she looked back and saw Kennedy clutching "at his throat". My question is, how do you know that four seconds didn't pass between the time that she heard the noise and then turned around?
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December 06, 2011, 12:55:58 AM
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For starters, you posted this:
Why did you add in the "223"? Nellie did not say "223", did she? No. Of course not. All she said was that she heard a noise which she didn't recognize as rifle fire. Many witnesses said the exact same thing about the early shot (the shot before 223). Then, she looked back and saw Kennedy clutching "at his throat". My question is, how do you know that four seconds didn't pass between the time that she heard the noise and then turned around?
Yeah Bill I am adding the Z223. I thought I made that clear by highlighting in red but I'll be more careful in not hurting your sensibilities from here on. I am tagging her testimony to the Zapruder film. If she heard 2 more shots after seeing the president clutch his throat, where suppose on Zapruder would that be Bill? Z223 close enough for you? She heard her last 2 shots after seeing the president clutch his throat. Simple maths.
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December 06, 2011, 01:42:17 AM
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Way to go, Bill! You didn't say she was confused!
However, your "four seconds for her to react to the sound of a rifle shot" is almost as lame. Think of it, the whole assassination only took six seconds!
The shooting sequence most likely lasted about nine seconds.
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December 06, 2011, 01:44:20 AM
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Yeah Bill I am adding the Z223. I thought I made that clear by highlighting in red but I'll be more careful in not hurting your sensibilities from here on.
Perhaps you should start over then. You clearly DID NOT highlight "223" in red. In fact, you have "223" in the exact same bold/font as Nellie's words. -I heard a noise that I didn't think of as a gunshot. I just heard a disturbing noise and turned to my right from where I thought the noise had come and looked in the back and saw the President clutch his neck with both hands. Z223
Edit: I see in the original post to the thread, you did indeed highlight "223" in red. I was referring to your post above.
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« Last Edit: December 06, 2011, 01:46:19 AM by Bill Brown »
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December 06, 2011, 01:52:37 AM
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I am tagging her testimony to the Zapruder film. If she heard 2 more shots after seeing the president clutch his throat, where suppose on Zapruder would that be Bill? Z223 close enough for you? She heard her last 2 shots after seeing the president clutch his throat. Simple maths.
The point that I am trying to make here is that you cannot state, as if it were fact, that the first noise Nellie heard was the shot at 223. To do so is simply faulty. I believe she heard a noise much earlier, which supports what many other witnesses said as well.
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