|
|
 October 19, 2011, 09:23:25 AM
|
Sr. Member
Posts: 264
|
I have read for the first timearticles about John Conally costume, which would validate SBT theory at frame 224. I made a search about this on this forum. The argument is about a movement on Conally's jacket between frame 223 and 224 According to Posner and Von Pein, it is the definitive proof ( "now and forever" sic) that Conally was hit at z224. see this pic and this pic As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginAs a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Loginbut conally's jacket was already moving at z222 see this pic As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginAs a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginHypothesis of a bullet at 224, flipping Conally's jacket is wrong IMHO, and we see on Z222 that kennedy's hands are already raising to his throat. On the stabilised pictures, we do not see Conally letting his hat fall on the ground despite a wound in the wrist. who can explain that?
-------------------------
|
|
|
 Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 09, 2011, 06:34:48 AM
|
Super Member
Posts: 6715
|
I think Connally picked frame 240 when he was hit.
There you can see his cheeks puff out and his shoulder is driven down.
If he was hit around that frame there is noway he was hit with the shot that hit Kennedy as he time between the 2 shots would not allow Oswald to get off 2 shots.
The frames went though the camera at 18.3 frames per second and the time it took to fire a shot and work the bolt is about 2.3 seconds that is without taking the time to aim the rifle.
No, Connally said about frame 230. His doctors said no later than 240. You can fire two shots within 1.66 seconds by not aiming.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 09, 2011, 06:27:00 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 2568
|
On the weekend of the assassination "A" Zapruder film was at the NPIC were Homer makes briefing boards... Part of the only documentation to come from that little stayover was the following which in itself has a number of implications... The person(s) creating this document already knows which frames Life is using to illustrate the 3 and only 3 shots At the same time, the film is reviewed for ALTERNATE SHOT SCENARIOS and we come to find there are some discrepencies... First... there is NO SHOT at 224 or anywhere close in any of the scenarios Second... if it can appear that shots are hitting at 5 different frames OTHER than 312/313... why does this not suggest 5 shots plus the final? Third - the non-Life shot frames make it impossible for a single shooter to accomplish - unless frames/time was removed from the film... So we have Z190, 206, 213, 242, & 264 as "frames on which shots occur" - and yet we only had 3 shots....  
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 10, 2011, 06:17:29 AM
|
Super Member
Posts: 6715
|
On the weekend of the assassination "A" Zapruder film was at the NPIC were Homer makes briefing boards... Part of the only documentation to come from that little stayover was the following which in itself has a number of implications... The person(s) creating this document already knows which frames Life is using to illustrate the 3 and only 3 shots At the same time, the film is reviewed for ALTERNATE SHOT SCENARIOS and we come to find there are some discrepencies... First... there is NO SHOT at 224 or anywhere close in any of the scenarios Second... if it can appear that shots are hitting at 5 different frames OTHER than 312/313... why does this not suggest 5 shots plus the final? Third - the non-Life shot frames make it impossible for a single shooter to accomplish - unless frames/time was removed from the film... So we have Z190, 206, 213, 242, & 264 as "frames on which shots occur" - and yet we only had 3 shots.... You're insane. The LIFE magazine solutions and the other possibilities ALL show 3 and only 3 shots, but at different possible times. Where did you get 5 shot? You pulled it out of your ass.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 13, 2011, 08:20:55 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 2568
|
You're insane. The LIFE magazine solutions and the other possibilities ALL show 3 and only 3 shots, but at different possible times. Where did you get 5 shot? You pulled it out of your ass.
Marsh... take a pill already dude... my god. READ it... "OTHER POSSIBILITIES" - Frames on which shots occurHow does one state that a SHOT OCCURS at 206 OR 213 and already have a shot occur at 190? and if Life was wrong about 190 after viewing the ORIGINAL FILM, how can both 206 and 213 be options for frames with shots? This is not EITHER OR anthony... if shots are truly seen at these frames explain how there can be a shot seen at 242 AND 264... explain the "OR" as well... when one looks at all the different "Frames on which shots occur" there should NOT be 6 different frames but only three... or at least the other possibilities should be very close to Life's SHOTS.. They are not.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 14, 2011, 06:01:26 AM
|
Super Member
Posts: 6715
|
Marsh... take a pill already dude... my god.
READ it... "OTHER POSSIBILITIES" - Frames on which shots occur
How does one state that a SHOT OCCURS at 206 OR 213 and already have a shot occur at 190? and if Life was wrong about 190 after viewing the ORIGINAL FILM, how can both 206 and 213 be options for frames with shots?
This is not EITHER OR anthony... if shots are truly seen at these frames explain how there can be a shot seen at 242 AND 264... explain the "OR" as well... when one looks at all the different "Frames on which shots occur"
there should NOT be 6 different frames but only three... or at least the other possibilities should be very close to Life's SHOTS..
They are not.
You are a complete and utter  . You can't understand a fifth-grade graph. It shows three possible solutions for the spacing of the three shot. The first solution is the official LIFE conclusion. The other two suggested by someone else. You are not allowed to ask by whom. LIFE - 1 - 2 190 - 213 - 206 264 - 242 - 242 312 - 312 - 312 So the LIFE solution has shots at 190, 264, 312. Alternative solution 1 has shots at 213, 242, 312. Alternative solution 2 has shots at 206, 242, 312. There are three competing solutions. They do not overlap. You can't combine them into one shooting scenario. One guy sees a shot at 190 while the other guy sees a shot at 213 while another sees a shot at 206. One guy sees a shot at 264 while everyone else sees the shot at 242. Everyone sees a shot at 312. Duh!
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 14, 2011, 10:11:25 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 2568
|
Kisses and hugs to you too A$$hole...  and from reading your posts - confusion about what is written is YOUR SOP buddy, not mine... The people at LIFE see shots at 190-264-312 OTHER PEOPLE SEE SHOTS on DIFFERENT FRAMES.... If Life sees a shot at 190.... and "whoever it was" sees shots at 206 or 213... Why are you concluding that one or the other of these interpretations is WRONG? How can "photo/film experts" see shots occurring at 242 AND NOT SEE it at 264, over a second later, per Life or at 190 for that matter? You make no sense Marsh... if you and I watch the same thing and I conclude shots per the LIFE scenario and you per scenario 1... TOGETHER we have seen shots appear on 5 different frames So either one of us is wrong... Both of us are wrong OR There were more than 3 shots recorded on the frames of the Z film... and we are bound to identifying ONLY 3 in any ONE scenario...
talk about DUH!
Thought you would understand this better AM... and STILL, in no scenario, is there a shot seen on Z224....
Here are the 5 frames on which shots were identified other than 312... Shots were recorded on this 5th grader's graph as "Frames on which shots occur"
Follow so far AM?
As you posted... different people see shots on different frames yet you conclude they are NOT in conflict with each other since ONLY ONE SET OF 3 SHOTS is ALLOWED as a conclusion - DUH!
is this because you are convinced there were only three shots and 3 of the frames they saw shots occurring where simply mistakes?
or as I state... even though there are 6 different frames identified where shots occur - they all cant be right - BECAUSE ?????? You are a complete and utter . You can't understand a fifth-grade graph. It shows three possible solutions for the spacing of the three shot. The first solution is the official LIFE conclusion. The other two suggested by someone else. You are not allowed to ask by whom. LIFE - 1 - 2 190 - 213 - 206 264 - 242 - 242 312 - 312 - 312 So the LIFE solution has shots at 190, 264, 312. Alternative solution 1 has shots at 213, 242, 312. Alternative solution 2 has shots at 206, 242, 312. There are three competing solutions. They do not overlap. You can't combine them into one shooting scenario. One guy sees a shot at 190 while the other guy sees a shot at 213 while another sees a shot at 206. One guy sees a shot at 264 while everyone else sees the shot at 242. Everyone sees a shot at 312. Duh!
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 16, 2011, 02:30:25 AM
|
Super Member
Posts: 6715
|
Kisses and hugs to you too A$$hole... and from reading your posts - confusion about what is written is YOUR SOP buddy, not mine... The people at LIFE see shots at 190-264-312 OTHER PEOPLE SEE SHOTS on DIFFERENT FRAMES.... If Life sees a shot at 190.... and "whoever it was" sees shots at 206 or 213... Why are you concluding that one or the other of these interpretations is WRONG? How can "photo/film experts" see shots occurring at 242 AND NOT SEE it at 264, over a second later, per Life or at 190 for that matter? You make no sense Marsh... if you and I watch the same thing and I conclude shots per the LIFE scenario and you per scenario 1... TOGETHER we have seen shots appear on 5 different frames So either one of us is wrong... Both of us are wrong OR There were more than 3 shots recorded on the frames of the Z film... and we are bound to identifying ONLY 3 in any ONE scenario...
talk about DUH!
Thought you would understand this better AM... and STILL, in no scenario, is there a shot seen on Z224....
Here are the 5 frames on which shots were identified other than 312... Shots were recorded on this 5th grader's graph as "Frames on which shots occur"
Follow so far AM?
As you posted... different people see shots on different frames yet you conclude they are NOT in conflict with each other since ONLY ONE SET OF 3 SHOTS is ALLOWED as a conclusion - DUH!
is this because you are convinced there were only three shots and 3 of the frames they saw shots occurring where simply mistakes?
or as I state... even though there are 6 different frames identified where shots occur - they all cant be right - BECAUSE ??????I didn't say WHO was wrong. They are ALL wrong. I'm not taking sides in their cockroach fight. You have to remember one thing you seem to have forgotten. This analysis was still very early in the controversy. Many of them still thought three shots, three hits. So they are looking at the Zapruder film and trying to find indications of bullets hitting the men. I think they were all right about a shot hitting at 312 (although they should have said 312/313. But they were all wrong about the other shots. They were not starting with wounds and then looking for shots to cause each of the wounds. They were assuming exactly three shots and then try to show what each shot hit when.
-------------------------
|
|
|
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 09:39:49 PM by Anthony Marsh »
|
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 16, 2011, 07:05:13 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 2568
|
I didn't say WHO was wrong. The are ALL wrong. I'm not taking sides in their cockroach fight.
You have to remember one thing you seem to have forgotten. This analysis was still very early in the controversy. Many of them still thought three shots, three hits.
So they are looking at the Zapruder film and trying to find indications of bullets hitting the men.
I think they were all right about a shot hitting at 312 (although they should have said 312/313.
But they were all wrong about the other shots.
They were not starting with wounds and then looking for shots to cause each of the wounds.
They were assuming exactly three shots and then try to show what each shot hit when.
You said a mouthfull here Anthony.. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THREE SHOT SCENARIOS.... and trying to make it fit... NOT looking for frames with shots and accepting what they were seeing on this BEST OF ALL COPIES viewed ... or even the original. Homer says he saw 6-8 shots when he viewed it.. It is obvious from this document that they were working BACKWARD from that 3 shot scenario... which was my point... The FACT there are other frames with shots identified that are not even close to different frames identified should mean that there were indeed more than 3 shots and our boys in DC chose the most possible scenarios... Yet from this simple document, there is NO EVIDENCE OF A SHOT Between 213 and 242.... at least to those who viewed THAT film... So 1) did they see a different film? or 2) were they correct and we are seeing the film they observed? Looks to me JC is hit at 224, or if that was a reaction to the first shot, z231-236 as JC says himself... we also have 242 and 264 in this sequence where NPIC said there was a shot on the frame...  
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 16, 2011, 09:46:19 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 6715
|
You said a mouthfull here Anthony.. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THREE SHOT SCENARIOS.... and trying to make it fit... NOT looking for frames with shots and accepting what they were seeing on this BEST OF ALL COPIES viewed ... or even the original. Homer says he saw 6-8 shots when he viewed it.. It is obvious from this document that they were working BACKWARD from that 3 shot scenario... which was my point... The FACT there are other frames with shots identified that are not even close to different frames identified should mean that there were indeed more than 3 shots and our boys in DC chose the most possible scenarios... Yet from this simple document, there is NO EVIDENCE OF A SHOT Between 213 and 242.... at least to those who viewed THAT film... So 1) did they see a different film? or 2) were they correct and we are seeing the film they observed? Looks to me JC is hit at 224, or if that was a reaction to the first shot, z231-236 as JC says himself... we also have 242 and 264 in this sequence where NPIC said there was a shot on the frame... Yeah, I don't care what Homer Simpson thought. I'd like to see you quote EXACTLY what he said so that maybe we can figure out WHY he thought that. He didn't name the frames did he?
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
December 16, 2011, 10:31:15 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 6715
|
You said a mouthfull here Anthony.. THEY WERE LOOKING FOR THREE SHOT SCENARIOS.... and trying to make it fit... NOT looking for frames with shots and accepting what they were seeing on this BEST OF ALL COPIES viewed ... or even the original. Homer says he saw 6-8 shots when he viewed it.. It is obvious from this document that they were working BACKWARD from that 3 shot scenario... which was my point... The FACT there are other frames with shots identified that are not even close to different frames identified should mean that there were indeed more than 3 shots and our boys in DC chose the most possible scenarios... Yet from this simple document, there is NO EVIDENCE OF A SHOT Between 213 and 242.... at least to those who viewed THAT film... So 1) did they see a different film? or 2) were they correct and we are seeing the film they observed? Looks to me JC is hit at 224, or if that was a reaction to the first shot, z231-236 as JC says himself... we also have 242 and 264 in this sequence where NPIC said there was a shot on the frame... No exactly what Homer McMahon said. He was interviewed by Doug Horne of the ARRB: HM:...Let me not answer that question, let me take a detour. I’m an army brat. My dad was in the first and second world war. And he was an officer. And when I was four years old, I was taught to shoot tricks. I was one of the greatest trick shot artists. When I was sixteen I used to fire at Perry, at Camp Perry, Ohio, I was in the NRA national championships. I’m talking about target shooting, not tricks. I was what they called a sight shooter. I could hit without aiming. In other words I was a trick shot artist. My dad would hold a dime between his fingers and at fifty foot I could shoot it out (ha ha) with a little trick gun. I’d pump three balls, golf balls and could pump and hit the three of them before they hit the ground. I used to have a rifle range in my basement and I would shoot every day and I became….it was like driving a car and after you’ve done it for so long you’re reflexes do it automatically. I could shoot without looking. I didn’t close one eye and look through a sight. I could actually shoot and hit what I wanted to hit. And I think I could really see the bullets hitting the object, and their trajectory, I could see the path of the bullet, and I could compensate for that if I missed. It was a feedback mechanism. And I was very good at what I did. In fact I’d make money in the money matches with the larger rifles, and I could make four or five hundred dollars in prize money firing, so I was a professional shooter, and yes, I could look at the pictures and tell you how many shots and possibly where they came from up, down, right, left, and this is intuition, and I couldn’t explain how I know that. DH: What was it, how many shots were there in the assassination? What is your opinion? HM: About eight shots. DH: Where did they come from? HM: From three different directions, at least. DH: Could you remember what the directions were? HM: No, but if you have the film, you can plot vectors. Because you can go out, I’m a photogramist as well. (ha ha) You can go out. Okay there’s a way to do it, believe me. DH: Were you asked to do that? HM: No. So how about if we ignore all the other evidence and just rely on one guy's opinion because he was a trick shot? About 8 shots. Close enough for government work.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
| 0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
|
