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 October 15, 2011, 08:14:48 PM
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Newbie
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I'm new to all of this as such. I don't no if this point has been raised before. I've uploaded an image with a few frames from the Zapruder film. I would appreciate your input on something which doesn't seem right. It's the man in the background with the camera closest the car, I think it's Altgens. He and the people around him are being illuminated by the same source (the sun) and yet his shadow doesn't behave as theirs do. To me it appears that what little shadow he does cast, points in a different direction to the people around him. When his shadow behaves slightly more normal with regards to its direction it develops the infamous ultra crisp quality not in keeping with the blurred Altgens. Does anybody else think his shadow isn't right or am I alone? As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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October 17, 2011, 07:41:23 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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I'm new to all of this as such. I don't no if this point has been raised before. I've uploaded an image with a few frames from the Zapruder film. I would appreciate your input on something which doesn't seem right. It's the man in the background with the camera closest the car, I think it's Altgens. He and the people around him are being illuminated by the same source (the sun) and yet his shadow doesn't behave as theirs do. To me it appears that what little shadow he does cast, points in a different direction to the people around him. When his shadow behaves slightly more normal with regards to its direction it develops the infamous ultra crisp quality not in keeping with the blurred Altgens. Does anybody else think his shadow isn't right or am I alone?  Hey, I think you're onto something. I think you should develop a theory that Altgens was an alien so his shadow was abnormal. Yeah, that's it! On my Web page I showed how kooky one theory was about a shadow. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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October 17, 2011, 09:14:43 AM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 264
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hi john, your remark is interesting about altgens' shadow. It's right that it is not the same shadow than Bothun.
Altgens has his right leg moving.
Altgens was a Associated Press photographer, very professionnal and a mobile photographer,
moving very quickly. his unique job this day was to have the motorcade, a succession of cars with the background of dallas.
He was on the street some sconds before and , on the pics you posted, he is moving backwards, his right leg just passed from the street to the grass.
Just after the shots, he went back on the street, more than 1m50 on the road.
His right leg is inclinated and does not produce the same shadow than Bothun's right leg.
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October 18, 2011, 12:36:51 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2568
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I'm new to all of this as such. I don't no if this point has been raised before. I've uploaded an image with a few frames from the Zapruder film. I would appreciate your input on something which doesn't seem right. It's the man in the background with the camera closest the car, I think it's Altgens. He and the people around him are being illuminated by the same source (the sun) and yet his shadow doesn't behave as theirs do. To me it appears that what little shadow he does cast, points in a different direction to the people around him. When his shadow behaves slightly more normal with regards to its direction it develops the infamous ultra crisp quality not in keeping with the blurred Altgens. Does anybody else think his shadow isn't right or am I alone? As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginYou make a good point regardless of how Mr. Marsh pokes fun.... But, like a fishbowl or glass of water... the shadow looks disjointed due to the curb... yet the angle coming off of him is a bit strange to say the least.... When you add his testimony about being 15 feet from the limo at z313, and we KNOW that not to be the case... makes it all the more worth pursuing Welcome and enjoy... nothing wrong with hypothesizing... DJ 
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October 18, 2011, 03:18:09 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2139
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I'm new to all of this as such. I don't no if this point has been raised before. I've uploaded an image with a few frames from the Zapruder film. I would appreciate your input on something which doesn't seem right. It's the man in the background with the camera closest the car, I think it's Altgens. He and the people around him are being illuminated by the same source (the sun) and yet his shadow doesn't behave as theirs do. To me it appears that what little shadow he does cast, points in a different direction to the people around him. When his shadow behaves slightly more normal with regards to its direction it develops the infamous ultra crisp quality not in keeping with the blurred Altgens. Does anybody else think his shadow isn't right or am I alone? As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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I think I will try looking into this again (time permitting), because something does not seem quite right here with these shadows. I think the best
answers would come from a re-creation....trying to replicate & re-locate people to match the locations seen in the Z film. Same time of year (hey...
we're sneaking up on yet another anniversary and roughly just 5 weeks away)....it has to be a bright sunny day & around 12:30...locate a photographer
on the pedestal where Zapruder stood...and start shooting some pictures. I'm too far away and have never been to the plaza, so count me out. Even though
I would love to and wish that I could.
Any volunteers who could do a re-creation?? 
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« Last Edit: October 18, 2011, 03:25:23 AM by Rick Needham »
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But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people- John F. Kennedy
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October 18, 2011, 07:49:25 AM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 264
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I promise you all to post the recreation of dealey plaza with all faces, clothes, movements, trees with exact foliage. Il have finishedf 60% of dealey plaza with textures and illumination , position of the sun, wind. All this with the help of the new version of my favorite 3d program. Jean Hill and Mary Ann Moorman are on the grass, what i can say about
altgen's shadow, is that he did exactly the same movement than willis at the beginning of the Zapruder film. He was on the street, he went backwards. His right leg is not on the grass, and his left leg is inclinated, not straight, all the weight of his body is on the left leg.
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October 18, 2011, 07:56:34 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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I'm new to all of this as such. I don't no if this point has been raised before. I've uploaded an image with a few frames from the Zapruder film. I would appreciate your input on something which doesn't seem right. It's the man in the background with the camera closest the car, I think it's Altgens. He and the people around him are being illuminated by the same source (the sun) and yet his shadow doesn't behave as theirs do. To me it appears that what little shadow he does cast, points in a different direction to the people around him. When his shadow behaves slightly more normal with regards to its direction it develops the infamous ultra crisp quality not in keeping with the blurred Altgens. Does anybody else think his shadow isn't right or am I alone? As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginThe reason why the shadows do not look the same is because you can't see much of Altgen's shadow. The other people are far enough back on the grass that you can see their entire body shadows. But Altgens is standing on the curb so very little of his shadow can be seen. And his feet were farther apart as he had just stepped up onto the grass after taking photo #6. His left foot being at a slight angle also starts you off with a false impression of how the shadow should fall.
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October 18, 2011, 09:00:32 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 264
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Yes and you can better see the shadow on one following frame like the z352 i think. Anyway, i made my computer calculate some views of altgens dance on dealey plaza. The work is in progress, some objects are not detailed, but you can see two frames from the Babooshka-beverly oliver film. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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October 18, 2011, 10:48:33 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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Yes and you can better see the shadow on one following frame like the z352 i think. Anyway, i made my computer calculate some views of altgens dance on dealey plaza. The work is in progress, some objects are not detailed, but you can see two frames from the Babooshka-beverly oliver film. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginYour curbs look too straight. I had a lot of trouble duplicating the S curves when I first drew the map on the Commodore 64 because I only had GeoPaint and had to draw pixel by pixel. To get the curves right you should overlay the revised HSCA map.
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October 19, 2011, 07:54:29 AM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 264
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Yes curves are straight because it is a ghost model, the finished model has too much polygones to handle when aligning, it would slow the process, i even put grass in 3d to get a good texture. Jeans Hill's Curly hair is already 400 000 polygons, i have to work with simplified models.
I just authorised myself to show the final trees on the fence side. They have the exact foliage and produce the same shadow that the 22th of november. Foliage is important to verify the "badgeman' and "blackdogman" and HSCA GK shooter.
It is too soon to place conclusion, but some parts of dealey plaza are finished. The grassy knoll area is finished and i can already see that some artefacts in willis picture on the contrete wall are not bottles of coca or bag, because they would need to be 75 centimeters high. I know you have big things in usa, but coke botlles of that size?
About Position of moorman, she was on the grass, everybody know that but some people had doubts and made reconstitutions. Same position produce same virtual polaroid.
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« Last Edit: October 19, 2011, 08:17:08 AM by Thierry Speth »
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October 21, 2011, 02:43:34 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6715
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Yes curves are straight because it is a ghost model, the finished model has too much polygones to handle when aligning, it would slow the process, i even put grass in 3d to get a good texture. Jeans Hill's Curly hair is already 400 000 polygons, i have to work with simplified models.
I just authorised myself to show the final trees on the fence side. They have the exact foliage and produce the same shadow that the 22th of november. Foliage is important to verify the "badgeman' and "blackdogman" and HSCA GK shooter.
It is too soon to place conclusion, but some parts of dealey plaza are finished. The grassy knoll area is finished and i can already see that some artefacts in willis picture on the contrete wall are not bottles of coca or bag, because they would need to be 75 centimeters high. I know you have big things in usa, but coke botlles of that size?
About Position of moorman, she was on the grass, everybody know that but some people had doubts and made reconstitutions. Same position produce same virtual polaroid.
Not sure what you mean, but it was a regular size Coke bottle. Sure, we used to have huge Coke bottles back then, but in the Towner picture it is a normal size Coke bottle of 1963. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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October 21, 2011, 06:49:27 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 264
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My post was a reaction to a mc adams site reference where a guy compared the willis pic to the shape of a coke bottle on a reconstitution. The mc Adams site has a lot of references who make me tired, we could pass monthes to debunk his debunks or correct his corrections. This is boring me.
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