|
|
 September 25, 2011, 08:08:42 AM
|
Super Member
Posts: 9051
|
This topic seems to be getting lost in other threads. So I figured I'd just begin this thread so the topic would have a place to call home, so to speak.
Barbara Davis testified to the Warren Commission, namely Joseph Ball. Mrs. Davis lived at the corner of Tenth and Patton. It was her front lawn that the suspect crossed, as he fled the scene after shooting Officer Tippit. She testified that she was in bed when she heard two shots. She went to her front door and saw a man crossing her lawn and emptying the revolver of spent shells:
"It (the gun) was open and he had his hands cocked like he was emptying it" - Barbara Davis
Mrs. Davis said that the man had the gun open and was "shaking it". She also testified that she found one shell under the window, in the grass, beside her house. She added that her sister-in-law, Virginia Davis, found another shell later in the day, by Virginia's door (the two women lived in the same building, but different doors for entry).
So, based on Barbara Davis' very reliable Warren Commission testimony regarding this incident, we know that two shells were found in the Davis yard, very close to the house, which is exactly the path taken by the fleeing suspect. We also know that the suspect was shaking the gun while it was open, most likely in an attempt to empty the weapon of the spent shells, while he was crossing through Barbara Davis' yard.
Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis both picked Oswald out of a lineup on Friday evening, the day of the Tippit murder, as the man that they had seen crossing their yard and shaking the weapon as if to remove the spent shells from it.
Domingo Benavides was driving his pick-up truck on Tenth Street, heading directly towards Tippit's stopped patrol car. He saw Oswald standing on the passenger side of the car. He saw Tippit standing on the driver's side of the car, as he had just gotten out of the car. Benavides heard one shot, then ducked down and heard two more shots. He looked back up in time to see Tippit fall to the ground.
Benavides also saw Oswald throw two of the shells to the ground. Then, Benavides watched as Oswald fled the scene by way of the front yard of the house on the corner (the Davis house). Benavides described seeing Oswald either empty more shells from the weapon or insert new bullets (he wasn't sure), as Oswald fled across the Davis yard. This testimony by Benavides corroborates Barbara Davis' version of events, as well, as far as seeing the suspect fiddle with the weapon as he fled across the yard.
Benavides said that he saw Oswald throw one shell into a bush and the other one beside the bush. By the way, Benavides also described Oswald as wearing a light beige jacket (the same color as the jacket later found and belonging to Oswald).
Benavides then describes how he "walked directly" to the shells that he witnessed the suspect throw away. He picked them up with a stick and placed them in an empty cigarette package. His Warren Commission testimony clearly described finding two of the shells.
To sum it up, Benavides immediately found two shells. These are the two shells that Poe had in the cigarette wrapper. Barbara Davis found one shell a couple hours after the shooting. Virginia Davis found one shell about four hours after the shooting. All four of these shells were found in and around the Davis yard. The Davis yard was nowhere near where one would expect to find shells if they were automatically ejected from the weapon, as the killer had it in his hand while firing at Tippit from a location very near the patrol car.
If fired from an automatic weapon, how did the shells get to the yard of the Davis house, which was located roughly 75 to 90 feet away from where the killer was standing, as he fired the shots that murdered Tippit?
Multiple witnesses saw Oswald either shake the weapon to get the shells out or throw shells to the ground, as he fled across the Davis yard.
This was not an automatic weapon and these were not automatic shells.
Can any CT who believes that the shells were auto, logically answer my above question?
-------------------------
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 08:18:00 AM by Bill Brown »
|
-------------------------
"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
|
|
|
 Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 09:52:01 AM
|
Super Member
Posts: 9143
|
This topic seems to be getting lost in other threads. So I figured I'd just begin this thread so the topic would have a place to call home, so to speak.
Barbara Davis testified to the Warren Commission, namely Joseph Ball. Mrs. Davis lived at the corner of Tenth and Patton. It was her front lawn that the suspect crossed, as he fled the scene after shooting Officer Tippit. She testified that she was in bed when she heard two shots. She went to her front door and saw a man crossing her lawn and emptying the revolver of spent shells:
"It (the gun) was open and he had his hands cocked like he was emptying it" - Barbara Davis
Mrs. Davis said that the man had the gun open and was "shaking it". She also testified that she found one shell under the window, in the grass, beside her house. She added that her sister-in-law, Virginia Davis, found another shell later in the day, by Virginia's door (the two women lived in the same building, but different doors for entry).
So, based on Barbara Davis' very reliable Warren Commission testimony regarding this incident, we know that two shells were found in the Davis yard, very close to the house, which is exactly the path taken by the fleeing suspect. We also know that the suspect was shaking the gun while it was open, most likely in an attempt to empty the weapon of the spent shells, while he was crossing through Barbara Davis' yard.
Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis both picked Oswald out of a lineup on Friday evening, the day of the Tippit murder, as the man that they had seen crossing their yard and shaking the weapon as if to remove the spent shells from it.
Domingo Benavides was driving his pick-up truck on Tenth Street, heading directly towards Tippit's stopped patrol car. He saw Oswald standing on the passenger side of the car. He saw Tippit standing on the driver's side of the car, as he had just gotten out of the car. Benavides heard one shot, then ducked down and heard two more shots. He looked back up in time to see Tippit fall to the ground.
Benavides also saw Oswald throw two of the shells to the ground. Then, Benavides watched as Oswald fled the scene by way of the front yard of the house on the corner (the Davis house). Benavides described seeing Oswald either empty more shells from the weapon or insert new bullets (he wasn't sure), as Oswald fled across the Davis yard. This testimony by Benavides corroborates Barbara Davis' version of events, as well, as far as seeing the suspect fiddle with the weapon as he fled across the yard.
Benavides said that he saw Oswald throw one shell into a bush and the other one beside the bush. By the way, Benavides also described Oswald as wearing a light beige jacket (the same color as the jacket later found and belonging to Oswald).
Benavides then describes how he "walked directly" to the shells that he witnessed the suspect throw away. He picked them up with a stick and placed them in an empty cigarette package. His Warren Commission testimony clearly described finding two of the shells.
To sum it up, Benavides immediately found two shells. These are the two shells that Poe had in the cigarette wrapper. Barbara Davis found one shell a couple hours after the shooting. Virginia Davis found one shell about four hours after the shooting. All four of these shells were found in and around the Davis yard. The Davis yard was nowhere near where one would expect to find shells if they were automatically ejected from the weapon, as the killer had it in his hand while firing at Tippit from a location very near the patrol car.
If fired from an automatic weapon, how did the shells get to the yard of the Davis house, which was located roughly 75 to 90 feet away from where the killer was standing, as he fired the shots that murdered Tippit?
Multiple witnesses saw Oswald either shake the weapon to get the shells out or throw shells to the ground, as he fled across the Davis yard.
This was not an automatic weapon and these were not automatic shells.
Can any CT who believes that the shells were auto, logically answer my above question?
I would like to have a CT address the issue of the shells as well. Every single person who testifies about these shells has remarked Oswald was "throwing them down". If they were automatic shells, why is there no testimony of him picking them up? If they were from an automatic, he would have had to pick them up near the murder scene, and then throw them down again in the David yard. Bill, If you have a decent overhead map of this area I would use Visio to make a graphic and amplify the point.
-------------------------
-------------------------
Marsh can not even comprehend a simple time stamp. How will he ever comprehend the evidence?
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 03:25:47 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 5253
|
I would like to have a CT address the issue of the shells as well. Every single person who testifies about these shells has remarked Oswald was "throwing them down". If they were automatic shells, why is there no testimony of him picking them up? If they were from an automatic, he would have had to pick them up near the murder scene, and then throw them down again in the David yard.
Bill,
If you have a decent overhead map of this area I would use Visio to make a graphic and amplify the point.
Only idf you can show that Hill Knew where the shooting was exctly. Mike a quick glance at the angled (shank?) just before the rim Without inspecting the numbers /letters would indicate an auto is this correct ?.
-------------------------
-------------------------
Some things we know we know,the rest we have to find out for ourselves
One of the first things we found out was that the Warren Commission never pursued a conspiracy investigation.
Louis Stokes
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 04:19:09 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 9143
|
Only idf you can show that Hill Knew where the shooting was exctly.
Mike a quick glance at the angled (shank?) just before the rim Without inspecting the numbers /letters would indicate an auto is this correct ?.
To me yes. To Hill I dont know. Knew where the shooting was? I would think the dead guy would be a clue.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 05:26:11 PM
|
Full Member
Posts: 186
|
This topic seems to be getting lost in other threads. So I figured I'd just begin this thread so the topic would have a place to call home, so to speak.
Barbara Davis testified to the Warren Commission, namely Joseph Ball. Mrs. Davis lived at the corner of Tenth and Patton. It was her front lawn that the suspect crossed, as he fled the scene after shooting Officer Tippit. She testified that she was in bed when she heard two shots. She went to her front door and saw a man crossing her lawn and emptying the revolver of spent shells:
"It (the gun) was open and he had his hands cocked like he was emptying it" - Barbara Davis
Mrs. Davis said that the man had the gun open and was "shaking it". She also testified that she found one shell under the window, in the grass, beside her house. She added that her sister-in-law, Virginia Davis, found another shell later in the day, by Virginia's door (the two women lived in the same building, but different doors for entry).
So, based on Barbara Davis' very reliable Warren Commission testimony regarding this incident, we know that two shells were found in the Davis yard, very close to the house, which is exactly the path taken by the fleeing suspect. We also know that the suspect was shaking the gun while it was open, most likely in an attempt to empty the weapon of the spent shells, while he was crossing through Barbara Davis' yard.
Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis both picked Oswald out of a lineup on Friday evening, the day of the Tippit murder, as the man that they had seen crossing their yard and shaking the weapon as if to remove the spent shells from it.
Domingo Benavides was driving his pick-up truck on Tenth Street, heading directly towards Tippit's stopped patrol car. He saw Oswald standing on the passenger side of the car. He saw Tippit standing on the driver's side of the car, as he had just gotten out of the car. Benavides heard one shot, then ducked down and heard two more shots. He looked back up in time to see Tippit fall to the ground.
Benavides also saw Oswald throw two of the shells to the ground. Then, Benavides watched as Oswald fled the scene by way of the front yard of the house on the corner (the Davis house). Benavides described seeing Oswald either empty more shells from the weapon or insert new bullets (he wasn't sure), as Oswald fled across the Davis yard. This testimony by Benavides corroborates Barbara Davis' version of events, as well, as far as seeing the suspect fiddle with the weapon as he fled across the yard.
Benavides said that he saw Oswald throw one shell into a bush and the other one beside the bush. By the way, Benavides also described Oswald as wearing a light beige jacket (the same color as the jacket later found and belonging to Oswald).
Benavides then describes how he "walked directly" to the shells that he witnessed the suspect throw away. He picked them up with a stick and placed them in an empty cigarette package. His Warren Commission testimony clearly described finding two of the shells.
To sum it up, Benavides immediately found two shells. These are the two shells that Poe had in the cigarette wrapper. Barbara Davis found one shell a couple hours after the shooting. Virginia Davis found one shell about four hours after the shooting. All four of these shells were found in and around the Davis yard. The Davis yard was nowhere near where one would expect to find shells if they were automatically ejected from the weapon, as the killer had it in his hand while firing at Tippit from a location very near the patrol car.
If fired from an automatic weapon, how did the shells get to the yard of the Davis house, which was located roughly 75 to 90 feet away from where the killer was standing, as he fired the shots that murdered Tippit?
Multiple witnesses saw Oswald either shake the weapon to get the shells out or throw shells to the ground, as he fled across the Davis yard.
This was not an automatic weapon and these were not automatic shells.
Can any CT who believes that the shells were auto, logically answer my above question?
Excellent post Bill. 
-------------------------
|
|
|
« Last Edit: September 25, 2011, 05:27:16 PM by John Agee »
|
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 05:51:33 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 5253
|
To me yes. To Hill I dont know.
Knew where the shooting was? I would think the dead guy would be a clue.
As to where he was shot from?.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 05:57:35 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 9143
|
As to where he was shot from?.
Certainly. There were witnesses all over the place. And I doubt he would think the man fired from Davis yard lol.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 06:13:33 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 2148
|
This topic seems to be getting lost in other threads. So I figured I'd just begin this thread so the topic would have a place to call home, so to speak.
Barbara Davis testified to the Warren Commission, namely Joseph Ball. Mrs. Davis lived at the corner of Tenth and Patton. It was her front lawn that the suspect crossed, as he fled the scene after shooting Officer Tippit. She testified that she was in bed when she heard two shots. She went to her front door and saw a man crossing her lawn and emptying the revolver of spent shells:
"It (the gun) was open and he had his hands cocked like he was emptying it" - Barbara Davis
Mrs. Davis said that the man had the gun open and was "shaking it". She also testified that she found one shell under the window, in the grass, beside her house. She added that her sister-in-law, Virginia Davis, found another shell later in the day, by Virginia's door (the two women lived in the same building, but different doors for entry).
So, based on Barbara Davis' very reliable Warren Commission testimony regarding this incident, we know that two shells were found in the Davis yard, very close to the house, which is exactly the path taken by the fleeing suspect. We also know that the suspect was shaking the gun while it was open, most likely in an attempt to empty the weapon of the spent shells, while he was crossing through Barbara Davis' yard.
Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis both picked Oswald out of a lineup on Friday evening, the day of the Tippit murder, as the man that they had seen crossing their yard and shaking the weapon as if to remove the spent shells from it.
Domingo Benavides was driving his pick-up truck on Tenth Street, heading directly towards Tippit's stopped patrol car. He saw Oswald standing on the passenger side of the car. He saw Tippit standing on the driver's side of the car, as he had just gotten out of the car. Benavides heard one shot, then ducked down and heard two more shots. He looked back up in time to see Tippit fall to the ground.
Benavides also saw Oswald throw two of the shells to the ground. Then, Benavides watched as Oswald fled the scene by way of the front yard of the house on the corner (the Davis house). Benavides described seeing Oswald either empty more shells from the weapon or insert new bullets (he wasn't sure), as Oswald fled across the Davis yard. This testimony by Benavides corroborates Barbara Davis' version of events, as well, as far as seeing the suspect fiddle with the weapon as he fled across the yard.
Benavides said that he saw Oswald throw one shell into a bush and the other one beside the bush. By the way, Benavides also described Oswald as wearing a light beige jacket (the same color as the jacket later found and belonging to Oswald).
Benavides then describes how he "walked directly" to the shells that he witnessed the suspect throw away. He picked them up with a stick and placed them in an empty cigarette package. His Warren Commission testimony clearly described finding two of the shells.
To sum it up, Benavides immediately found two shells. These are the two shells that Poe had in the cigarette wrapper. Barbara Davis found one shell a couple hours after the shooting. Virginia Davis found one shell about four hours after the shooting. All four of these shells were found in and around the Davis yard. The Davis yard was nowhere near where one would expect to find shells if they were automatically ejected from the weapon, as the killer had it in his hand while firing at Tippit from a location very near the patrol car.
If fired from an automatic weapon, how did the shells get to the yard of the Davis house, which was located roughly 75 to 90 feet away from where the killer was standing, as he fired the shots that murdered Tippit?
Multiple witnesses saw Oswald either shake the weapon to get the shells out or throw shells to the ground, as he fled across the Davis yard.
This was not an automatic weapon and these were not automatic shells.
Can any CT who believes that the shells were auto, logically answer my above question?
Interesting, neither the Davis's or Benavides was ask during their testimony to identify the shells they found. That aside, the witnesses you mentioned did describe what the suspect was wearing. ------------------------------------------- As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginNovember 22, 1963 Mr. J. E. Curry Chief of Police Sir: On November 22, 1963 at approximately 1:18 PM, while working squad
105, Officers Joe M. Poe #1175 and L.E. Jez #1479 were working
crowd control at the scene of the murder of President Kennedy,
Elm and Houston Streets. The officers heard a police officer was
involved in a shooting at 400 E. 10th.
-snip-
We were met by a white female who identified herself as Helen
Marsalle, 328 E. 9th Street, who stated she witnessed the shooting
of the officer. When she went to his aid the suspect threatened
to kill her and she ran. She identified the subject as a white
male about 25 years old, 5'10", slender build, bushy hair, wearing
a brown jacket.-snip- ----------------------------- TESTIMONY OF MRS. CHARLIE VIRGINIA DAVISMr. BALL. Did he have a coat on when you saw him? Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What color coat? Mrs. DAVIS. A dark coat. --------------------------------- TESTIMONY OF MRS. BARBARA JEANETTE DAVIS Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what color his trousers were? Mrs. DAVIS. [c]I think they were black. Brown jacket and trousers. -------------------------------- Testimony Of Domingo BenavidesMr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight.--------------------------------------------------------- Jim garrisson had an interesing take on this. "On The Trail Of The Assassins"by Jim Garrisson. "...The bullets found in Officer Tippit's body and the cartridges found
at the scene of his murder yielded further evidence of the frameup. The
Dallas coroner had conducted an autopsy on Tippit's body and had
removed four bullets from it. Three of them, it turned out, were
copper-coated and had been manufactured by the Winchester Western
company. The fourth, however, was a lead bullet made by the
Remington-Peters company
This was awfully strange, I thought, because bullets were never sold
in mixed lots. Gun users bought either a box of all Winchesters or one
of all Remingtons, but not some of each. The discovery of two different
makes of bullets in Tippit's body indicated to me and would indicate
to most experienced police officers a likelihood that two different
gunmen did the shooting. This was consistent with the eyewitness
testimony of Acquilla Clemons and Mr. and Mrs. Wright.
When a homicide occurs, it is standard operating procedure for the
police homicide division to send off the bullets and cartridges to the
F.B.I. Iaboratory in Washington, D.C. for study and possible identi-
fication of the gun that fired them. In this case, the Dallas homicide
unit, understandably shy about advertising the coroner's discovery,
sent only one bullet to the F.B.I. Iab, informing the Bureau that this
was the only bullet found in Tippit's body.
To everyone's surprise, the Bureau lab found that the bullet did not
match Oswald's revolver. When it discovered this oddity, the Warren
Commission was inspired to look for other bullets that might match
up better. Although the Commission never received a copy of Tippit's
autopsy report, somehow it found out that four bullets rather than
merely one had been found in Tippit's body. The ordinarily incu-
rious Commission asked the F.B.I. to inquire about the three missing
bullets, and they were found after four months gathering dust in
the files of the Dallas homicide division.
These bullets were sent to the F.B.I. Iab. But Special Agent Court-
landt Cunningham, the ballistics expert from the lab, testified before
the Commission that the lab was unable to conclude that any of the
four bullets found in Tippit's body had been fired by the revolver taken
from Lee Oswald..."
-------------------------
-------------------------
Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
John F. Kennedy
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 06:17:20 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 9143
|
Interesting, neither the Davis's or Benavides was ask during their testimony to identify the shells they found. That aside, the witnesses you mentioned did describe what the suspect was wearing. ------------------------------------------- As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginNovember 22, 1963 Mr. J. E. Curry Chief of Police Sir: On November 22, 1963 at approximately 1:18 PM, while working squad
105, Officers Joe M. Poe #1175 and L.E. Jez #1479 were working
crowd control at the scene of the murder of President Kennedy,
Elm and Houston Streets. The officers heard a police officer was
involved in a shooting at 400 E. 10th.
-snip-
We were met by a white female who identified herself as Helen
Marsalle, 328 E. 9th Street, who stated she witnessed the shooting
of the officer. When she went to his aid the suspect threatened
to kill her and she ran. She identified the subject as a white
male about 25 years old, 5'10", slender build, bushy hair, wearing
a brown jacket.-snip- ----------------------------- TESTIMONY OF MRS. CHARLIE VIRGINIA DAVISMr. BALL. Did he have a coat on when you saw him? Mrs. DAVIS. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What color coat? Mrs. DAVIS. A dark coat. --------------------------------- TESTIMONY OF MRS. BARBARA JEANETTE DAVIS Mr. BELIN. Do you remember what color his trousers were? Mrs. DAVIS. [c]I think they were black. Brown jacket and trousers. -------------------------------- Testimony Of Domingo BenavidesMr. BENAVIDES - I would say he was about your size, and he had a light-beige jacket, and was lightweight.--------------------------------------------------------- Jim garrisson had an interesing take on this. "On The Trail Of The Assassins"by Jim Garrisson. "...The bullets found in Officer Tippit's body and the cartridges found
at the scene of his murder yielded further evidence of the frameup. The
Dallas coroner had conducted an autopsy on Tippit's body and had
removed four bullets from it. Three of them, it turned out, were
copper-coated and had been manufactured by the Winchester Western
company. The fourth, however, was a lead bullet made by the
Remington-Peters company
This was awfully strange, I thought, because bullets were never sold
in mixed lots. Gun users bought either a box of all Winchesters or one
of all Remingtons, but not some of each. The discovery of two different
makes of bullets in Tippit's body indicated to me and would indicate
to most experienced police officers a likelihood that two different
gunmen did the shooting. This was consistent with the eyewitness
testimony of Acquilla Clemons and Mr. and Mrs. Wright.
When a homicide occurs, it is standard operating procedure for the
police homicide division to send off the bullets and cartridges to the
F.B.I. Iaboratory in Washington, D.C. for study and possible identi-
fication of the gun that fired them. In this case, the Dallas homicide
unit, understandably shy about advertising the coroner's discovery,
sent only one bullet to the F.B.I. Iab, informing the Bureau that this
was the only bullet found in Tippit's body.
To everyone's surprise, the Bureau lab found that the bullet did not
match Oswald's revolver. When it discovered this oddity, the Warren
Commission was inspired to look for other bullets that might match
up better. Although the Commission never received a copy of Tippit's
autopsy report, somehow it found out that four bullets rather than
merely one had been found in Tippit's body. The ordinarily incu-
rious Commission asked the F.B.I. to inquire about the three missing
bullets, and they were found after four months gathering dust in
the files of the Dallas homicide division.
These bullets were sent to the F.B.I. Iab. But Special Agent Court-
landt Cunningham, the ballistics expert from the lab, testified before
the Commission that the lab was unable to conclude that any of the
four bullets found in Tippit's body had been fired by the revolver taken
from Lee Oswald..."And here comes Gary, right on que. You mean the ones that picked him from a line up? Nice try Gary, but you better try actually reading the evidence.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 06:43:26 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 2148
|
And here comes Gary, right on que.
You mean the ones that picked him from a line up?
Nice try Gary, but you better try actually reading the evidence.
Benavides picked Oswald out of a line-up? What a dolt!
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 07:05:21 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 9143
|
Benavides picked Oswald out of a line-up?
What a dolt!
Did anyone say the killer picked up his spent shells? I notice you like to use that word a lot when you are getting your ass handed to you.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
|
|
September 25, 2011, 07:28:13 PM
|
Super Member
Posts: 2148
|
Did anyone say the killer picked up his spent shells?
I notice you like to use that word a lot when you are getting your ass handed to you.
Another quality contribution from bullet boy. Why don't you go read Benavide's testimony before making anymore stupid posts.
-------------------------
|
|
|
Reply |
|
|
| 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
|
