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 April 23, 2011, 03:12:26 AM
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Jr. Member
Posts: 60
After all... We are not Communists.
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It has been said that nobody was behind the fence during the attack. It has also been said that the smoke seen on the GK is exhaust or steam.
I demonstrated multiple people on the overpass who saw smoke which coincided with the attack.
This is not a point that an assassin fired. This is a point that SOMEONE was there.
Holland, Dodd, Murphy, and ilk, all described a puff of smoke.All unanimously describe it as smoke, steam or exhaust. None describe a massive cloud, or a lasting smoke. Merely a 'puff' as if off that of a cigarette.
Immediately following the shooting, Holland and ilk made their way around the overpass, to behind the fence in the parking lot. A 'sea of cars'. When they got to the spot where they saw the smoke, they found numerous tracks. Described, as hundreds. It can be noted, that it rained, and as Bill Brown pointed out, the parking lot was unpaved. Naturally foot prints were everywhere. However, the description of this spot where the smoke was seen was indicated to be isolated. As if someone was walking back and forth along the fence-line. Several cigarette butts were discovered in this particular spot. Mud was discovered to have been scraped off on the bumper of a car parked very near the fence, as well as on the wooden planks within the fence itself.
Moorman took her infamous photo fractions of a second after Kennedy was hit (this is the consensus). In the photo, a figure, as if only the top of an individuals head can be seen in the exact spot Holland and ilk saw the smoke. This figure is not imaginative. It takes to crayons or cinematic interpretation to identify. It is proportionately accurate to an individual directly behind the fence, whether they are rather short a tad over 5 feet) or they are crouching/ducking. This image has yet to be replicated.
The ultimate point here, is that all indications point to SOMEONE being in that particular spot. I would like to ask the members of this board whether this is the case or not.
My contention is that whoever this person was, may have been smoking, and was behind the fence. I think there is more than enough reason to conclude this.
The steam pipe is not in the correct area to cause the possible puff of smoke. Car exhaust is not ruled out, but considering the uniformity of the motorcade, and the coinciding of the puff WITH the shooting (not after as many claim), seem to rule this out.
This spot has a possible image in the Moorman photo.
This spot had hundreds of footprints after the shooting.
This spot had several cigarette butts strewn about.
This spot had mud on the bumpers of a car parked right up to the fence.
This spot had mud on the fence itself.
There was someone there during the attack.
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After all... We are not Communists.
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April 23, 2011, 12:48:31 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 9143
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It has been said that nobody was behind the fence during the attack. It has also been said that the smoke seen on the GK is exhaust or steam.
I demonstrated multiple people on the overpass who saw smoke which coincided with the attack.
This is not a point that an assassin fired. This is a point that SOMEONE was there.
Holland, Dodd, Murphy, and ilk, all described a puff of smoke.All unanimously describe it as smoke, steam or exhaust. None describe a massive cloud, or a lasting smoke. Merely a 'puff' as if off that of a cigarette.
Immediately following the shooting, Holland and ilk made their way around the overpass, to behind the fence in the parking lot. A 'sea of cars'. When they got to the spot where they saw the smoke, they found numerous tracks. Described, as hundreds. It can be noted, that it rained, and as Bill Brown pointed out, the parking lot was unpaved. Naturally foot prints were everywhere. However, the description of this spot where the smoke was seen was indicated to be isolated. As if someone was walking back and forth along the fence-line. Several cigarette butts were discovered in this particular spot. Mud was discovered to have been scraped off on the bumper of a car parked very near the fence, as well as on the wooden planks within the fence itself.
Moorman took her infamous photo fractions of a second after Kennedy was hit (this is the consensus). In the photo, a figure, as if only the top of an individuals head can be seen in the exact spot Holland and ilk saw the smoke. This figure is not imaginative. It takes to crayons or cinematic interpretation to identify. It is proportionately accurate to an individual directly behind the fence, whether they are rather short a tad over 5 feet) or they are crouching/ducking. This image has yet to be replicated.
The ultimate point here, is that all indications point to SOMEONE being in that particular spot. I would like to ask the members of this board whether this is the case or not.
My contention is that whoever this person was, may have been smoking, and was behind the fence. I think there is more than enough reason to conclude this.
The steam pipe is not in the correct area to cause the possible puff of smoke. Car exhaust is not ruled out, but considering the uniformity of the motorcade, and the coinciding of the puff WITH the shooting (not after as many claim), seem to rule this out.
This spot has a possible image in the Moorman photo.
This spot had hundreds of footprints after the shooting.
This spot had several cigarette butts strewn about.
This spot had mud on the bumpers of a car parked right up to the fence.
This spot had mud on the fence itself.
There was someone there during the attack.
Some of your points help but others are superfluous. There may have been hundreds of footprints in that area from the railroad workers who ran around to that area just after the shooting. The mud on the car bumper does not indicate the shooter stood on a car bumper. There was no need to do that to shoot over the fence. The fence was only 5 feet tall. In the 1978 shooting tests the DPD marksman shot from behind the fence easily just standing on the ground. Don't forget to add that Bowers saw a couple of men in that area earlier. And no one else was there when Joe Smith ran into the fake Secret Service agent. Mike, I think what I presented certainly may indicate someone was behind the fence smoking at the time of the shooting. To all others, I am not trying to say a shooter fired from here. I am not proposing an assassin. All I want is a yes or no that someone could have been behind the fence at the time of the shooting, in that particular spot. The things you posted show that at sometime there was someone smoking. At sometime there was someone walking there. There is nothing that shows someone was there during the shooting, as there is nothing in any photo evidence of anyone being there.sure there is:  credit: Rick Needham and again:  and this is just Zapruder Well for the life of me I dont see what yall see. I do know that thus far Ricks work is less than impressive.
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Marsh can not even comprehend a simple time stamp. How will he ever comprehend the evidence?
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April 23, 2011, 01:03:27 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2338
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In the Mooreman photo there is a dark blob, IMO it is in no way identifiable as a man. Its an indistinct, misshapen blob of unknown cause. It doesn't look particularily like a man to me, not even in a vague way.
The gif that Rick put together is interesting, but again I am not convinced. There is foliage visibly blowing in this GIF, and I thinks it is as likely that the movement seen "behind the fence" is just part of this foliage, as it is a man bobbing up and down. Why would a man bob up and down like that at all? If he just fired at the car, I should think he'd be busy escaping.
I used to believe in this sort of stuff, but not any more. I think the man behind the fence is foliage and nothing more.
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"you're the cop, you figure it out"
-Lee H. Oswald to Dallas Police detectives, weekend
of 11-22-63.
"Part of the reason why we avoided talking about this thing, because every time you say something, somebody misinterprets what you say."
-James. J. Humes, excerpt of ARRB statement, 2-13-96
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April 23, 2011, 02:23:14 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 570
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It has been said that nobody was behind the fence during the attack. It has also been said that the smoke seen on the GK is exhaust or steam.
I demonstrated multiple people on the overpass who saw smoke which coincided with the attack.
This is not a point that an assassin fired. This is a point that SOMEONE was there.
Holland, Dodd, Murphy, and ilk, all described a puff of smoke.All unanimously describe it as smoke, steam or exhaust. None describe a massive cloud, or a lasting smoke. Merely a 'puff' as if off that of a cigarette.
Immediately following the shooting, Holland and ilk made their way around the overpass, to behind the fence in the parking lot. A 'sea of cars'. When they got to the spot where they saw the smoke, they found numerous tracks. Described, as hundreds. It can be noted, that it rained, and as Bill Brown pointed out, the parking lot was unpaved. Naturally foot prints were everywhere. However, the description of this spot where the smoke was seen was indicated to be isolated. As if someone was walking back and forth along the fence-line. Several cigarette butts were discovered in this particular spot. Mud was discovered to have been scraped off on the bumper of a car parked very near the fence, as well as on the wooden planks within the fence itself.
Moorman took her infamous photo fractions of a second after Kennedy was hit (this is the consensus). In the photo, a figure, as if only the top of an individuals head can be seen in the exact spot Holland and ilk saw the smoke. This figure is not imaginative. It takes to crayons or cinematic interpretation to identify. It is proportionately accurate to an individual directly behind the fence, whether they are rather short a tad over 5 feet) or they are crouching/ducking. This image has yet to be replicated.
The ultimate point here, is that all indications point to SOMEONE being in that particular spot. I would like to ask the members of this board whether this is the case or not.
My contention is that whoever this person was, may have been smoking, and was behind the fence. I think there is more than enough reason to conclude this.
The steam pipe is not in the correct area to cause the possible puff of smoke. Car exhaust is not ruled out, but considering the uniformity of the motorcade, and the coinciding of the puff WITH the shooting (not after as many claim), seem to rule this out.
This spot has a possible image in the Moorman photo.
This spot had hundreds of footprints after the shooting.
This spot had several cigarette butts strewn about.
This spot had mud on the bumpers of a car parked right up to the fence.
This spot had mud on the fence itself.
There was someone there during the attack.
Some of your points help but others are superfluous. There may have been hundreds of footprints in that area from the railroad workers who ran around to that area just after the shooting. The mud on the car bumper does not indicate the shooter stood on a car bumper. There was no need to do that to shoot over the fence. The fence was only 5 feet tall. In the 1978 shooting tests the DPD marksman shot from behind the fence easily just standing on the ground. Don't forget to add that Bowers saw a couple of men in that area earlier. And no one else was there when Joe Smith ran into the fake Secret Service agent. Mike, I think what I presented certainly may indicate someone was behind the fence smoking at the time of the shooting. To all others, I am not trying to say a shooter fired from here. I am not proposing an assassin. All I want is a yes or no that someone could have been behind the fence at the time of the shooting, in that particular spot. The things you posted show that at sometime there was someone smoking. At sometime there was someone walking there. There is nothing that shows someone was there during the shooting, as there is nothing in any photo evidence of anyone being there.sure there is: credit: Rick Needham and again: and this is just Zapruder The so called "assassin" movements are consistant with the rest of the trees and leaves moving around in this GIF. People see what they want to see I guess. The facts and common sense say to me that there is no plausible escape rout, all the people closest to this location stated they never heard a shot from there, and the parking lot was swarming with cops within seconds and no sign of a weapon or any witness testimony of an escaping assassin. If there was a person there, he wasnt shooting at the President. Its just insane to ingore how impossible getting away unseen from this location would be. IMO
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April 23, 2011, 03:30:20 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 3791
Well, somebody did it.
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It's foliage blowing in the wind , a shooter there is a silly idea. So far there is no photographic evidence of one and no ballistic evidence of one, we also know that it was a terrible place for a sniper to have chosen. We also know that all shots came from behind while the fence is to the side, so no point in continuing threads like this, people that still believe there was a shooter on the knoll after all this time are just not willing to face the reality of the situation. There wasn't one and not even Oswald would have shot directly toward Jackie's face, this is silly.
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LN; So how did it happen then ?
CT; I don't know, I only know that it didn't happen the way the evidence says.
LN; We should not use evidence in this case ?
CT; Correct.
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April 23, 2011, 06:10:14 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2139
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It has been said that nobody was behind the fence during the attack. It has also been said that the smoke seen on the GK is exhaust or steam.
I demonstrated multiple people on the overpass who saw smoke which coincided with the attack.
This is not a point that an assassin fired. This is a point that SOMEONE was there.
Holland, Dodd, Murphy, and ilk, all described a puff of smoke.All unanimously describe it as smoke, steam or exhaust. None describe a massive cloud, or a lasting smoke. Merely a 'puff' as if off that of a cigarette.
Immediately following the shooting, Holland and ilk made their way around the overpass, to behind the fence in the parking lot. A 'sea of cars'. When they got to the spot where they saw the smoke, they found numerous tracks. Described, as hundreds. It can be noted, that it rained, and as Bill Brown pointed out, the parking lot was unpaved. Naturally foot prints were everywhere. However, the description of this spot where the smoke was seen was indicated to be isolated. As if someone was walking back and forth along the fence-line. Several cigarette butts were discovered in this particular spot. Mud was discovered to have been scraped off on the bumper of a car parked very near the fence, as well as on the wooden planks within the fence itself.
Moorman took her infamous photo fractions of a second after Kennedy was hit (this is the consensus). In the photo, a figure, as if only the top of an individuals head can be seen in the exact spot Holland and ilk saw the smoke. This figure is not imaginative. It takes to crayons or cinematic interpretation to identify. It is proportionately accurate to an individual directly behind the fence, whether they are rather short a tad over 5 feet) or they are crouching/ducking. This image has yet to be replicated.
The ultimate point here, is that all indications point to SOMEONE being in that particular spot. I would like to ask the members of this board whether this is the case or not.
My contention is that whoever this person was, may have been smoking, and was behind the fence. I think there is more than enough reason to conclude this.
The steam pipe is not in the correct area to cause the possible puff of smoke. Car exhaust is not ruled out, but considering the uniformity of the motorcade, and the coinciding of the puff WITH the shooting (not after as many claim), seem to rule this out.
This spot has a possible image in the Moorman photo.
This spot had hundreds of footprints after the shooting.
This spot had several cigarette butts strewn about.
This spot had mud on the bumpers of a car parked right up to the fence.
This spot had mud on the fence itself.
There was someone there during the attack.
Some of your points help but others are superfluous. There may have been hundreds of footprints in that area from the railroad workers who ran around to that area just after the shooting. The mud on the car bumper does not indicate the shooter stood on a car bumper. There was no need to do that to shoot over the fence. The fence was only 5 feet tall. In the 1978 shooting tests the DPD marksman shot from behind the fence easily just standing on the ground. Don't forget to add that Bowers saw a couple of men in that area earlier. And no one else was there when Joe Smith ran into the fake Secret Service agent. Mike, I think what I presented certainly may indicate someone was behind the fence smoking at the time of the shooting. To all others, I am not trying to say a shooter fired from here. I am not proposing an assassin. All I want is a yes or no that someone could have been behind the fence at the time of the shooting, in that particular spot. The things you posted show that at sometime there was someone smoking. At sometime there was someone walking there. There is nothing that shows someone was there during the shooting, as there is nothing in any photo evidence of anyone being there.sure there is: credit: Rick Needham and again: and this is just Zapruder That's right Gerda. There WAS someone there behind the fence during the shooting. But Mike is in denial, even with photographic proof.  Rick
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But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people- John F. Kennedy
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April 23, 2011, 06:31:56 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2355
Germany
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well, those with an agenda would not see a figure there if it would be crystal sharp and waving into the camera. by Mike Giampaolo
The so called "assassin" movements are consistant with the rest of the trees and leaves moving around in this GIF. wrong, the image behind the fence is just moving a ltlle bit and is almost motionless, never did i say assassin or sniper or gunman, i don't see a gun or arifle in his hands or sticking above the top of the fence, do you ? And the leafes don't move all the same way, did you even look at the animation ? People see what they want to see I guess. some do, do you count yourself to that group, or me ? Do you think i have an agenda ? Do you think i lack common sense and impartiality in this case ? The facts and common sense say to me that there is no plausible escape rout, all the people closest to this location stated they never heard a shot from there, and the parking lot was swarming with cops within seconds and no sign of a weapon or any witness testimony of an escaping assassin. If there was a person there, he wasnt shooting at the President. Its just insane to ingore how impossible getting away unseen from this location would be. IMO IMO you don't know what you are talking about. no offense, it is just my opinion.
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"ich bin ein Berliner" As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login"There's none so blind as those who will not see."
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April 23, 2011, 06:54:29 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2147
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-snip-
The so called "assassin" movements are consistant with the rest of the trees and leaves moving around in this GIF. People see what they want to see I guess. The facts and common sense say to me that there is no plausible escape rout, all the people closest to this location stated they never heard a shot from there, and the parking lot was swarming with cops within seconds and no sign of a weapon or any witness testimony of an escaping assassin. If there was a person there, he wasnt shooting at the President. Its just insane to ingore how impossible getting away unseen from this location would be. IMO
Before me, the undersigned authority. on this the 22nd day of November 1963 petsonally appeared Mr J.C. Price Address 9602 Astor, Dallas This day at about 1235 PM I was on the roof of the Termaniel Annex Bldg on the
NE Corner when the presidential Motorcade came down Main to Houston, North on
Houston and then West on Elm. The cars had proceeded West on Elm and was
just a short distance from the Tripple underpass, when I saw Gov Connelly
slump over . I did not see the president as his car had gotten out of my
view under the underpass . There was a volley of shots, I think five and then
much later, maybe as much as five minutes later another one . I saw one man
run towards the passenger cars on the railroad siding after the volley of shots.
This man had a white dress shirt, no tie and kahki colored trousers . His hair
appeared to be long and dark and his agility running could be about 25 yrs of
age. He had something in his hand.As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login
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Too often we... enjoy the comfort of opinion without the discomfort of thought.
John F. Kennedy
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April 23, 2011, 08:22:32 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 1711
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well, those with an agenda would not see a figure there if it would be crystal sharp and waving into the camera.
Personally I would love to acknowledge the presence of a human figure in just one photo or film taken of the fence area that day. I have yet to see anything other than blurs, blobs, film artifacts and misinterpretations. Come on, seriously. If there was truly a human form in any one of these, there would be an instantaneous firestorm of media coverage like we've never witnessed in the history of media. The JFK mystery would be half-answered in one stunning moment and the doubters would be forced to accept a previously unthinkable thing. I'm not knocking the effort whatsoever -- I think every bit of research into this area is worthwhile and important. And the technological skills being employed here are really impressive. But like most things Dealey Plaza, this is yet another Rorschach blending of interpretation and desire. imho. 
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April 23, 2011, 09:06:19 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2139
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A small 4 frame stabilized animation using Zapruder frames 462, and 465-467. Frames 463 and 464 have been omitted simply because they are too blurred to be useful. These frames were brightened only. Animation is set at 18 fps with no delay after frame 467....it just loops over and over again. Can you see the man behind the fence that both myself and Gerry Dark have been trying to help you to see? I can see him just fine. He's standing right there facing towards Elm. Rick 
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« Last Edit: April 23, 2011, 09:09:09 PM by Rick Needham »
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April 23, 2011, 09:08:28 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 9143
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A small 4 frame stabilized animation using Zapruder frames 462, and 465-467. Frames 463 and 464 have been omitted simply because they are too blurred to be useful. These frames were brightened only. Can you see the man behind the fence that both myself and Gerry Dark have been trying to help you to see? I can see him just fine. Rick Nope dont see anything.
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