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 January 27, 2012, 03:10:30 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 431
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Oh it was in Oak Cliff all right. 10 blocks NW of where Oswald encountered Tippitt, walking in a SE direction. What conclusion can you draw from that?
Nobody said anything about him heading for Ruby's apartment. I mentioned that CTers like that theory. I don't, myself. There's not any real evidence that links them together. that would be speculation.
The airport's a possibility, but who knows. One thing's for sure. I don't know, and neither do you.
We don't know of any plan. That's the point. You can speculate but there is no evidence that Oswald had any predetermined plan for escape. Or what that plan was. Or that it demonstrates any type of conspiracy. His actions are consistent with someone on the run. Putting distance between himself and the crime scene. And that's all we can really say. Like I said before, even if he had some sort of plan there were no good options for him. The police would have the bus stations and airports under surveillance. Those are the very first places they would be. Oswald was acting suspiciously even to people on the street who weren't looking for him. He would be arrested in 3 seconds if he stuck his head into one of those places.
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January 27, 2012, 05:25:39 PM
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Super Member
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We don't know of any plan. That's the point. You can speculate but there is no evidence that Oswald had any predetermined plan for escape. Or what that plan was. Or that it demonstrates any type of conspiracy. His actions are consistent with someone on the run. Putting distance between himself and the crime scene. And that's all we can really say. Like I said before, even if he had some sort of plan there were no good options for him. The police would have the bus stations and airports under surveillance. Those are the very first places they would be. Oswald was acting suspiciously even to people on the street who weren't looking for him. He would be arrested in 3 seconds if he stuck his head into one of those places.
The fact that they caught him pretty quickly suggests that there was not much planning as far as escaping. Let me ask you Richard. Do you think his actions make sense if he knew he was being framed and fleeing from that scenario? If we believe what Oswald said in custody, then we would also have to believe he is being framed.
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January 27, 2012, 07:00:18 PM
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Good point Bill. My understanding is that the transfer would not be able to be used on the same bus but might be useful for the Southbound on Beckley. Would it still have been valid just after 1pm? Perhaps he was thinking he could catch the bus for a few blocks and walk east to Marsalis. Of course we cant have him linger too long at the bus stop as he already is struggling to get to 10th and Patton by foot in time to be stopped by Tippit.
The transfer expired at one o'clock. Maybe Oswald was standing at the bus stop before one o'clock and was planning on using the transfer. The Beckley bus was on a different bus line than the bus that McWatters was driving. I'm unclear if the transfer would have been good on a different bus line. I assume the transfer would be good on all bus lines. Or, maybe Oswald was standing at the bus stop a little past one o'clock and was hoping that the transfer would still be accepted by the driver. Or, maybe Oswald was standing at the bus stop a little past one o'clock and would have simply used a few coins, had he boarded a bus there.
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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
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January 27, 2012, 07:04:51 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 446
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First, we have to believe he's the worst planner ever. He leaves the vast majority of his cash on dresser in Irving and his pistol on Beckley. Laughable that we're supposed to believe that. And before you say "He expected to be killed" remember the words: "I'm just a patsy".
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January 27, 2012, 07:06:38 PM
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Super Member
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Or, maybe Oswald was standing at the bus stop a little past one o'clock and was hoping that the transfer would still be accepted by the driver.
Or, maybe Oswald was standing at the bus stop a little past one o'clock and would have simply used a few coins, had he boarded a bus there.
Oh yes he was at the bus stop during the Tippit killing 
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"Good Christians, like slaves and soldiers, ask no questions." Jerry Falwell " I'm not  " T Winky
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January 27, 2012, 07:14:12 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 431
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The fact that they caught him pretty quickly suggests that there was not much planning as far as escaping. Let me ask you Richard. Do you think his actions make sense if he knew he was being framed and fleeing from that scenario? If we believe what Oswald said in custody, then we would also have to believe he is being framed.
He was behaving like a person who wanted to put distance between himself and the police. Does that alone disprove a conspiracy? No. But in most cases a person flees because they have committed a crime. He is not receiving assistance from anyone. Shooting Tippit is indicative of someone who believes they are in very serious trouble. Not a bit player but someone involved in the death of the President and prepared to kill another human being. At the very least, what it shows is that he is in this up to his eyeballs and not just as a patsy which many conspiracy theorists refuse to admit. The cumulative evidence - and not just his actions after the fact - lead me to conclude that he is the lone gunman. And nothing he does after the assassination causes me to rethink that conclusion. Any conspiracy theory that begins with Oswald as an innocent patsy is simply not credible. I refuse to even listen to that. It has to start with Oswald as a major player. Likely the lone shooter and involve as few people as possible. Then at least you are operating in the realm of reality. Even if there is no evidence to support your theory.
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January 27, 2012, 07:21:54 PM
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Super Member
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The cumulative evidence - and not just his actions after the fact - lead me to conclude that he is the lone gunman.
Any conspiracy theory that begins with Oswald as an innocent patsy is simply not credible. I refuse to even listen to that.
Well .. you better not listen to this then... YOU'RE AN I. D. I. O. T. !
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January 27, 2012, 07:34:17 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 1899
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He was behaving like a person who wanted to put distance between himself and the police. Does that alone disprove a conspiracy? No. But in most cases a person flees because they have committed a crime. He is not receiving assistance from anyone. Shooting Tippit is indicative of someone who believes they are in very serious trouble. Not a bit player but someone involved in the death of the President and prepared to kill another human being. At the very least, what it shows is that he is in this up to his eyeballs and not just as a patsy which many conspiracy theorists refuse to admit. The cumulative evidence - and not just his actions after the fact - lead me to conclude that he is the lone gunman. And nothing he does after the assassination causes me to rethink that conclusion. Any conspiracy theory that begins with Oswald as an innocent patsy is simply not credible. I refuse to even listen to that. It has to start with Oswald as a major player. Likely the lone shooter and involve as few people as possible. Then at least you are operating in the realm of reality. Even if there is no evidence to support your theory.
That is all good and fine if he is guilty of killing JFK first up and wants to get as far away as possible. You could understand him killing Tippit also if that is the case. However you would have to admit he didn't plan his escape like he planned his execution of JFK. Did he not expect to get away with it so he didn't bother to plan anything and just makes it up as he goes along? His actions after shooting JFK seem too random and his subsequent denials are verging on the ludicrous considering how much evidence is left behind. If he is being framed and still up to his eyeballs as some CT's have suggested, then his ad lib actions after the shooting can be easily explained. One thing is for sure in all this. If Oswald did plan to shoot JFK, he didn't plan a getaway.
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January 27, 2012, 07:48:56 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 431
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One thing is for sure in all this. If Oswald did plan to shoot JFK, he didn't plan a getaway.
This we can agree on. Some people here draw a sinister conclusion about it. He planned the Walker and JFK shooting meticulously. So why they ask did he behave so randomly after the JFK shooting like he had no plan? My best answer is there was no plan to be had. Oswald didn't own a car and couldn't drive. I think he realized his chances were slim and none. Leaving the money with Marina supports that conclusion. But his intent was not to surrender. Just play it out until the end. And that meant being arrested or killed. Anyway, nice to discuss the case with someone in a civil tone.
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January 27, 2012, 07:58:06 PM
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Super Member
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This we can agree on. Some people here draw a sinister conclusion about it. He planned the Walker and JFK shooting meticulously. So why they ask did he behave so randomly after the JFK shooting like he had no plan? My best answer is there was no plan to be had. Oswald didn't own a car and couldn't drive. I think he realized his chances were slim and none. Leaving the money with Marina supports that conclusion. But his intent was not to surrender. Just play it out until the end. And that meant being arrested or killed. Anyway, nice to discuss the case with someone in a civil tone.
A suicide mission without an apparent motive is all we are left to ponder. Nice discussing the case with you too mate.
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January 27, 2012, 10:40:59 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 140
That phrase at the beginning of "The X-Files"...
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We don't know of any plan. That's the point. You can speculate but there is no evidence that Oswald had any predetermined plan for escape. Or what that plan was. Or that it demonstrates any type of conspiracy. His actions are consistent with someone on the run. Putting distance between himself and the crime scene. And that's all we can really say. Like I said before, even if he had some sort of plan there were no good options for him. The police would have the bus stations and airports under surveillance. Those are the very first places they would be. Oswald was acting suspiciously even to people on the street who weren't looking for him. He would be arrested in 3 seconds if he stuck his head into one of those places.
Richard, I hope you don't think I'm trying to be less than civil. I'm not. The only point I'm trying to make, as passionately as you are, is that we really DON'T know. It's 50/50. Am I speculating? Sure. But because both Tippitt and Oswald were dead less than 48 hours after they met on 10th, there is no solid evidence they knew each other, but also no evidence that they didn't either. The fact is, as much as you say he was "acting suspiciously", this would be true AFTER he shot Tippitt; less so before. In fact, how he got from Dealey Plaza to his boarding house, and the route he took from his boarding house to the Tippitt shooting site is still disputed. If he was acting THAT suspiciously, there wouldn't be any doubt whatsoever of his route, and he likely would have been detained or formally confronted much, much sooner. His actions for a full half hour after the assassination remain a point of discussion, which would lead one to believe he was less apparent than you suggest. In fact, Helen Markham had suggested Oswald was quite calm when he shot Tippitt, while Johnny Calvin Brewer suggested he looked "scared" when he ducked into the Texas Theater. This is why I speculate; his demeanor after shooting Tippitt was markedly different than it was after shooting the President. So I have to submit to you - he's calm and cool after he's shot a President, but suddenly loses his cool when he's shot a flatfoot? I'm sorry, Richard...it really doesn't make much sense at all to me. Not because Oswald's actions should make sense, but because his apparent demeanor seems so different.
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