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 September 01, 2010, 12:32:07 AM
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Full Member
Posts: 109
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Altgens is almost in the street, here (see below), I've draw lines to him being on (by) the curb. Z's axis is as far, as I can draw (here), towards the left-of-centre of the freeway sign, towards the tower's north-west corner. I'm being as extreme, within parameters of logical reason; to try to address the problem. And in doing so, I still have a massive problem; why have 45 frames separated what is obvious, HERE, from what is SEEN in the Z-frames'? The Z-frames have been seriously altered, FROM THE FREEWAY SIGN ONWARDS, from what I'm demonstrating HERE. Altgens-6 was wired across the world within a few hours, and then mass published. And so, is very unlikely, to have been doctored. You should all be able to determine, from my drawing, that the limo (including configured contents) isn't where it should be according to the Z-frames. Or, that Clapping-man isn't where he should be. Apron-man and Clapping-man, are shown by the Z-frames, to be approximately where the tips of the two blue lines in my drawing from Z end, that is, intersecting within the curb area, to Altgens-6's far right of frame. I'VE USED THE LANE LINE AS REFERENCE POINTS. What's truly remarkable about Altgens-6, is the fact, that one of the World's best combat-photographers, was where he was, at that time, and had his axis, focus, aperture, exposure, and camera, lens, and film selection the way he did, and then squeezed his SLR's shutter release when he did. QUITE POSSIBLY THE MOST IMPORTANT PHOTOGRAPH EVER TAKEN ON THIS PLANET. 
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September 23, 2010, 09:55:54 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2633
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Chris or Martin
I keep getting drawn to JFK's head could one or both draw a line around it ? Thanks.
Ian
Ian, here a Gif with JFK's head overlayed. In Altgens his lips are squeezed and sloping it appears. I have studied this photo now so long, i believe i can draw a sketch out of my memory in 20 years.  best to you Martin Martin, The angle of your inserted head is wrong I believe, look where the left ear ends up. JFK's nose is totally misaligned from the center of his forehead in Altgens which is where his nose should be. Since the rear view mirror has no knob extending down below, I believe that is supposed to be his nose. chris  Chris, i believe here you can see it better.  best to you Mirror Dillard Love field. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginChris I beleive that serpia "Patriot newspaper" scan is one i did 2-years ago, i purchased the newspaper on Ebay, and scanned it. Robin, Thanks for reminding me about the source for the Patriot edition. I had forgotten where it came from. BTW, for future reference, the version I supplied is from the 11-23-63 edition of the "San Francisco Chronicle". chris I like your "San Francisco Chronicle" version better Chris, it is a lot clearer than the Patriot version i scanned.
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September 23, 2010, 07:06:12 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 5244
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Thought you had got rid of me eh! .I don't come down here very often its a bit out of my depth  I thought that by removing the black space between the 2 men it would somehow match up......... it didn't but I did learn 1 important thing Image manipulation is not as easy as you think it is .I cut out a shape that fitted perfectly then lost it .But will persevere or go quietly mad trying.
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Some things we know we know,the rest we have to find out for ourselves
One of the first things we found out was that the Warren Commission never pursued a conspiracy investigation.
Louis Stokes
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room
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September 23, 2010, 11:48:04 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2660
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This thread should be located in the photographic and film section? And Martin, the image you posted of the Burda shot,Do you or anyone else see what is right or wrong with this image? Got any more of this magazines images you can share? You can study JFK"s head all you want,but look at all the vehicles positions,not in the same place as in the famous Altgens! I beg you to post the rest of this mag's images.
Danny, the image from the Burda magazine is just a composition created by the developer of this magazine. I know it's confusing but i have said this in my posting. To do compositions is a common behaviour for magazines or newspaper. The backyard photos were for instances also reworked by two newspaper in the 60'es. That caused a lot of confusion. There are some other pictures printed in the Burda magazine from november 22, 1963 but all are well known and can be found in Robin's great Photo Gallery here. The best photos of this magazine are from the Kennedy's in earlier years. Jackie as a child, Jack as a young man.....photos from Jackie at the funeral showing how deep her sorrow was. Photos i've never seen before on the internet. If there is interest at all, i can scan this images in a separate Topic. But i have my doubts, the most interest here is to spend time with fights. Martin
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Firework As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginGod bless Emmett Till: As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginInsipired by the Movie "Invictus" and Nelson Mandela. What a poem! As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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August 20, 2011, 04:54:13 AM
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Jr. Member
Posts: 70
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I don't know who made the you tube video but I have not heard those theories before. Shots fired from the roof of the Dal Tex building. Here is the closest I came to the Altgens photo. 
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August 20, 2011, 12:16:01 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 224
CW5 - U.S.N CIS -ISC ,ret
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cool james ,..... thank you for all the pixs that u have posted  jim
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Lifton is right , Wack jobs like Fetzer give CT's a bad name ....
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August 31, 2011, 07:58:20 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2557
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What picture?
There are 3 photos in the above composite.
If you mean Altgens-6 was taken a about Z-254, then you haven't read my post, or digested what I'm saying.
Altgens-6 matches the position of the limo at Z-209, or there abouts.
That's what I'm saying ... read the title of my thread, that might help you.
I think I figured out what is amiss with your analysis David....
The light blue lines you are using to refer to APRON and CLAPPING man is in reality two completely different people and places...
APRON man is much farther up the street toward Houston than CLAPPING man, who is down near Jean/Mary...
But more to your point is Altgens' testimony as to where he was and how far the limo moved between shots...Mr. LIEBELER - Now, the thing that is troubling me, though, Mr. Altgens, is that you say the car was 30 feet away at the time you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 (Altgens 6) and that is the time at which the first shot was fired? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - And that it was 15 feet away at the time the third shot was fired. Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - But during that period of time the car moved much more than 15 feet down Elm Street going down toward the triple underpass? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes, sir. Mr. LIEBELER - I don't know how many feet it moved, but it moved quite a ways from the time the first shot was fired until the time the third shot was fired. I'm having trouble on this Exhibit No. 203 understanding how you could have been within 30 feet of the President's car when you took Commission Exhibit No. 203 and within 15 feet of the car when he was hit with the last shot in the head without having moved yourself. Now, you have previously indicated that you were right beside the President's car when he was hit in the head. Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I was about 15 feet from it. Mr. LIEBELER - But it was almost directly in front of you as it went down the street; isn't that right? Mr. ALTGENS - Yes. Mr. LIEBELER - Am I wrong, or isn't it correct that under that testimony the car couldn't have moved very far down Elm Street between the time you took Exhibit No. 203, which you took when the first shot was fired, and the time that you saw his head being hit, which was the time the last shot was fired? Mr. ALTGENS - Well, I have to take into consideration the law governing photographic materials and the use of optics in cameras--lenses--and while my camera may have been set on a distance of 30 feet, there is a plus or minus, area in which the focus still is maintained. I figure that this is approximately 30 feet because that's what I have measured on my camera. Mr. LIEBELER - And you say Exhibit No. 203 was taken about 30 feet away? Mr. ALTGENS - But it might be 40 feet, but I couldn't say that that's exactly the distance because while it may be in focus at 40 feet, my camera has it in focus 30 feet. It's the same thing--if I focus at 15 feet, my focus might extend 20 feet and it might also be reduced to 10 feet, but my focusing was in that general area of 30 feet. I believe, if you will let me say something further here about this picture---- Mr. LIEBELER - Go ahead. Mr. ALTGENS - Possibly I could step this off myself from this position, this approximate position where I was standing and step off the distance, using as a guidepost the marker on this post here or some marker that I can find in the area and I can probably step it off or measure it off and get the exact footage. I was just going by the markings on my camera. Mr. LIEBELER - The important thing is--it's not all that important as to how far you were away from the car at the time you took the picture--the thing that I want to establish is that you are absolutely sure that you took Exhibit No. 203 at about the time the first shot was fired and that you are quite sure also in your own mind, that there were no shots fired after you saw the President hit in the head. Mr. ALTGENS - That is correct; in both cases. 
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September 01, 2011, 12:56:31 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2633
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By clapping man, i assume you are refering to Charles Brehm. Altgens 6 is deceptive when trying to estimate Altgens camera position. he was much further down elm than may be expected while viewing that image. In Bronson, neither Altgen's or apron man are actually visible, and yet when looking at Altgen's 6 Altgen's appears to be much closer to the spectators ( Brehm, Hill, Moorman, and apron man ) than he really is. 
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 01:19:13 PM by Robin Unger »
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September 01, 2011, 01:26:42 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2633
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Zapruders zoom lens is also deceptive. In the image above through Zapruders lens, the blue scarf lady seems to be standing right next to the Stemmons sign and a few feet in front of it. But in reallity, as can be seen in Bronson, it is clear that she was closer to 20ft in front of the Stemmons sign. This is why it's important to cross reference the images. 
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« Last Edit: September 01, 2011, 03:25:48 PM by Robin Unger »
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September 02, 2011, 04:24:35 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2338
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I am confused (whats new, right?), I've gone through this thread twice now and I am still not sure exactly who he means by clapping man.
Not that it matters, but I don't agree with frame 256 aligning with Altgens. To me, in frame 256 I think JBCs face is turned too far away from Altgens viewfinder to have JBCs left eye and eyebrow showing in the Altgens photo. 255 it is.
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"you're the cop, you figure it out"
-Lee H. Oswald to Dallas Police detectives, weekend
of 11-22-63.
"Part of the reason why we avoided talking about this thing, because every time you say something, somebody misinterprets what you say."
-James. J. Humes, excerpt of ARRB statement, 2-13-96
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September 03, 2011, 12:58:42 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2139
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were the FBI using the same camera as Altgens ? i think it is impossible to 100% reproduce a photograph like this. The re-enactment pic is a bit off vertically and in zoom (i think).  I agree with you Gerry. There is no way the re-enactment photos match. They are close, but not exact. One thing that caught me eye immediately is the lettering on the TSBD. Look at the notch, or "Y" in the tree in both photos and then note the change in the positioning of the letter "S" which shows clearly in both the Altgens 6 photograph and the re-enactment photograph. I also had to rotate Altgens photo slightly to help the angles line up. Rick *EDIT* I have slowed down the GIF below and added a detail photo showing the stabilization point used marked by the red arrow.  
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« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 03:09:17 AM by Rick Needham »
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But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people- John F. Kennedy
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September 03, 2011, 03:18:29 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2139
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Thanks Robin. I did EDIT my post above. I slowed the GIF down and added a detail photo. It doesn't matter where I choose as the stabilization point. Here I have chosen the corner of the column also marked by the red arrow. The column now becomes somewhat stable, but then look at everything else "shift" in the GIF below. Nothing else is stable. Rick  
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« Last Edit: September 03, 2011, 03:28:40 AM by Rick Needham »
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