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 August 25, 2010, 07:51:35 PM
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Super Member
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In the last couple of days we have seen more of the usual. The Nuts trying to twist everthing, while trying to make this look like a conspiracy.
Zapruder is a strong witness for the LN side, but one of the nuts has tried to twist this in the last couple of days.
Zapruder said he heard 2 or 3 shots. The LN side said there were 3 shots.
Zapruder said they was so much reverberation and echos to tell where the shots came from. The LN side has always said alot of people couldn't tell because of these factors.
And Zapruder also testfied and said right on TV on 11/22 that the right wide of JFK's head opened up. Exactly like the autopsy photos and the Zfilm shot.
This is when they become nuts and nothing but. When they are so obsessed with trying to make it look like a conspiracy that facts no longer matter. Its like a religious belief to many of the nuts. The truth no loger matters, its all about trying to back up their fantasy.
And oh yeah there was the case this week of the nuts once again taking a vague statement from Rub try and show he admitted to a conspiracy. Which of course is a lie, but they try it about once a month.
I don't understand how anyone can be s obsessed with a theory that they are wlling to lie to try and back it. Can anyone of the LN who used to be a CT explain how it gets to this.
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What is silly is thinking that two turns that reduced the speed of the car to 8-11 m.p.h. is no big deal when motorcades are suppose to keep a 44 m.p.h. speed..R Caprio
LHO had poor hand-eye coordination and proof of this is seen in the fact he couldn't drive an automobile-- R Caprio
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August 26, 2010, 09:24:22 AM
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Full Member
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Q: if it's an open and shut case, why did none of the eyewitnesses, including those staring at the back of Kennedy's head, note an impact at that location, and why does the Z-film also fail to show blood erupting from the back of Kennedy's head? So why none here?It doesn't look like there was much blood or brain matter left , if it followed the path of least resistance why would it drain backwards through a small hole when there was a gaping hole in the direction that it was already moving. ? Do they rule out the back of the head as an entrance wound ? I mean, people are always simulating the shooting of Kennedy by shooting watermelons, fluid-filled skulls, etc...and fluid always explodes back out the entrance location. Could it be that the large wound depicted in frame 313 was a wound of both entrance and exit, as originally concluded by the man who pronounced him dead, Dr. William Kemp Clark? I doubt it, it looks like a bullet through the back of the skull goes through and takes a large chunk of the skull on the way out the front / right side, all of JFK's movements coincide with a shot from the back and there was no where that he could have been shot from in the front that makes any sense, since Jackie was not hit. At about 1:58 into this reenactment you can see that there was no matter traveling backwars out of the skull or very little. <![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> ! There was some backspatter in that re-enactment, but not much, because they simulated brain but failed to simulate blood. FWIW, Chapter 16c at patspeer.com is devoted to exposing the lies and deceptions in that program. Amazingly, it confirmed most everything I've been writing about for the past 6 years, but then pretended it confirmed the findings of the WC. Utter hogwash.
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August 26, 2010, 09:36:11 AM
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Full Member
Posts: 164
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In the last couple of days we have seen more of the usual. The Nuts trying to twist everthing, while trying to make this look like a conspiracy.
Zapruder is a strong witness for the LN side, but one of the nuts has tried to twist this in the last couple of days.
Zapruder said he heard 2 or 3 shots. The LN side said there were 3 shots.
Zapruder said they was so much reverberation and echos to tell where the shots came from. The LN side has always said alot of people couldn't tell because of these factors.
And Zapruder also testfied and said right on TV on 11/22 that the right wide of JFK's head opened up. Exactly like the autopsy photos and the Zfilm shot.
This is when they become nuts and nothing but. When they are so obsessed with trying to make it look like a conspiracy that facts no longer matter. Its like a religious belief to many of the nuts. The truth no loger matters, its all about trying to back up their fantasy.
And oh yeah there was the case this week of the nuts once again taking a vague statement from Rub try and show he admitted to a conspiracy. Which of course is a lie, but they try it about once a month.
I don't understand how anyone can be s obsessed with a theory that they are wlling to lie to try and back it. Can anyone of the LN who used to be a CT explain how it gets to this.
Q: if it's an open and shut case, why did none of the eyewitnesses, including those staring at the back of Kennedy's head, note an impact at that location, and why does the Z-film also fail to show blood erupting from the back of Kennedy's head? I mean, people are always simulating the shooting of Kennedy by shooting watermelons, fluid-filled skulls, etc...and fluid always explodes back out the entrance location. So why none here? Could it be that the large wound depicted in frame 313 was a wound of both entrance and exit, as originally concluded by the man who pronounced him dead, Dr. William Kemp Clark? Pat, there was no blood/tissue spray seen in the Zapruder film to indicate a 2nd shot to the head. Clearly, the only blood/tissue spray seen in the Zapruder film was from the one head shot, which obviously came from behind. Books on wound ballistics discuss back spatter... It would undoubtedly be expected to spurt from a high-velocity gunshot wound to the head... So where is it? The lack of back spatter from the back of JFK's head has led at least one blood spatter analyst to conclude what we see in the Z-film must be back spatter for a shot from the front. I disagree, and believe what we see is an explosion on the side of Kennedy's head for a shot fired from behind...that impacted at the supposed exit and created a large wound of both entrance and exit. This is discussed in detail at patspeer.com.
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August 26, 2010, 09:41:52 AM
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Full Member
Posts: 164
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if it's an open and shut case, why did none of the eyewitnesses, including those staring at the back of Kennedy's head, note an impact at that location, and why does the Z-film also fail to show blood erupting from the back of Kennedy's head? So why none here? Make your pick: Either the Zapruder film was altered, or the cops that rode behind Kennedy's car were lying. Bobby Hargis (Warren Commission testimony): "it seemed like his head exploded, and I was splattered with blood and brain, and kind of a bloody water. It wasn't really blood." As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login(8-7-68 Bobby Hargis interview with Tom Bethel and Al Oser, NARA #180-10096-10005) (When discussing how he could have been sprayed with blood, if the shot came from behind) "Well, that right there is what I've wondered about all along, but see there's ah -- you've got to take into consideration we were moving at the time, and when he got hit all that stuff went like this, and of course I run through it." (When discussing his interpretation of the direction of the shots) "Well, like I say, being that we know that the shot came from the School Book Depository, right then it was kind of hard to say what run through your mind. You know you pick up these little things. You don't know why you do it. You don't know why you do 'em, you just do 'em. It's just kind of instinct. But I had in my mind the shots you couldn't tell where they was coming, but it seemed like the motion of the President's head or his body and the splatter had hit me, it seemed like both the locations needed investigating, and that's why I investigated them. But you couldn't tell, there was -- it looked like a million windows on the Book Depository.You couldn't tell exactly if there was anyone in there with a gun." (When asked if the shots could have come from anywhere) "Uh huh. That's correct." (When asked if he saw the President's head  as a response to a bullet's impact) "Yes. Uh huh...To the left forward. Kind of that way...I couldn't see what part of it got hit...If he'd got hit in the rear, I'd have been able to see it. All I saw was just a splash come out on the other side."
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August 26, 2010, 01:00:53 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 1683
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In the last couple of days we have seen more of the usual. The Nuts trying to twist everthing, while trying to make this look like a conspiracy.
Zapruder is a strong witness for the LN side, but one of the nuts has tried to twist this in the last couple of days.
Zapruder said he heard 2 or 3 shots. The LN side said there were 3 shots.
Zapruder said they was so much reverberation and echos to tell where the shots came from. The LN side has always said alot of people couldn't tell because of these factors.
And Zapruder also testfied and said right on TV on 11/22 that the right wide of JFK's head opened up. Exactly like the autopsy photos and the Zfilm shot.
This is when they become nuts and nothing but. When they are so obsessed with trying to make it look like a conspiracy that facts no longer matter. Its like a religious belief to many of the nuts. The truth no loger matters, its all about trying to back up their fantasy.
And oh yeah there was the case this week of the nuts once again taking a vague statement from Rub try and show he admitted to a conspiracy. Which of course is a lie, but they try it about once a month.
I don't understand how anyone can be s obsessed with a theory that they are wlling to lie to try and back it. Can anyone of the LN who used to be a CT explain how it gets to this.
Q: if it's an open and shut case, why did none of the eyewitnesses, including those staring at the back of Kennedy's head, note an impact at that location, and why does the Z-film also fail to show blood erupting from the back of Kennedy's head? I mean, people are always simulating the shooting of Kennedy by shooting watermelons, fluid-filled skulls, etc...and fluid always explodes back out the entrance location. So why none here? Could it be that the large wound depicted in frame 313 was a wound of both entrance and exit, as originally concluded by the man who pronounced him dead, Dr. William Kemp Clark? Where did Dr. Clark describe a communicating wound of the head? Herbert Mr. SPECTER - What, if anything, did you say then in the course of that press conference? Dr. CLARK - I described the President's wound in his head in very much the same way as I have described it here. I was asked if this wound was an entrance wound, an exit wound, or what, and I said it could be an exit wound, but I felt it was a tangential wound. Mr. SPECTER - Which wound did you refer to at this time? Dr. CLARK - The wound in the head. Mr. SPECTER - Did you describe at that time what you meant by "tangential"? Dr. CLARK - Yes, sir; I did. Mr. SPECTER - What definition of "tangential" did you make at that time? Dr. CLARK - As I remember, I defined the word "tangential" as being---striking an object obliquely, not squarely or head on. Mr. SPECTER - Will you describe at this time in somewhat greater detail the consequences of a tangential wound as contrasted with another type of a striking? Dr. CLARK - Let me begin by saying that the damage suffered by an organ when struck by a bullet or other missile--- Mr. SPECTER - May the record show that I interrupted the deposition for about 2 minutes to ascertain what our afternoon schedule would be here because the regular administration office ordinarily closes at 12 o'clock, which was just about 15 minutes ago, and then we resumed the deposition of Dr. Clark as he was discussing the concept of tangential and other types of striking. Go ahead, Doctor. Dr. CLARK - The effects of any missile striking an organ or a function of the energy which is shed by the missile in passing through this organ when a bullet strikes the head, if it is able to pass through rapidly without shedding any energy into the brain, little damage results, other than that part of the brain which is directly penetrated by the missile. However, if it strikes the skull at an angle, it must then penetrate much more bone than normal, therefore, is likely to shed more energy, striking the brain a more powerful blow. Secondly, in striking the bone in this manner, it may cause pieces of the bone to be blown into the brain and thus act as secondary missiles. Finally, the bullet itself may be deformed and deflected so that it would go through or penetrate parts of the brain, not in the usual direct line it was proceeding. Mr. SPECTER - Now, referring back to the press conference, did you define a tangential wound at that time? Dr. CLARK - Yes. The earlier part of Clark's testimony gives a lay description of a tangential entry by a bullet. Following a break in the testimony, Clark describes the damaged done by a bullet that enters at a considerable angle of yaw, not the considerable angle of incidence of a tangential entry. So how does an incidence or a yaw angle relate to a communicating wound? My answer is no relationship. Herbert
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August 26, 2010, 01:54:01 PM
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Posts: 2906
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Let’s for a moment examine how high speed bullets damage organs in ways we can’t imagine. So says Dr. Vincent J.M. Di Maio, Chief Medical Examiner and Director of the Regional Crime Laboratory, County of Bexar, San Antonio, Texas. “In the concept of a gunshot wound held by most individuals, the bullet goes through the person like a drill bit through wood, “drilling” a neat hole through structures it passes through. However, this concept is nonsense. As a bullet moves through the body, it imparts kinetic energy to the surrounding tissue, flinging it away from the bullet’s path in a radial manner (direction) and producing a temporary cavity considerably larger than the diameter of the bullet. This temporary cavity, which has a lifetime of 5 to 10 msec from initial rapid growth until collapse, undergoes a series of gradually smaller pulsations and contractions before it finally disappears, leaving the permanent would track.” “In the case of JFK, note how the bullet interacts with the head in two stages. In the first stage, the bullet passesrapidly through, leaving an expanding temporary cavity in its wake. The separate events
of this first stage are (1) the bullet enters the skull by drilling a small entrance hole; (2) some brain matter is ejected backward out this hole (called tail splash); (3) the bullet, beginning to tumble, passes through the brain; and (4) the bullet leaves the skull by blasting a large exit hole. Note how each of these four events transfers forward momentum from the bullet to the head (the first movement of the head). In the second state (after the bullet has left the skull), brain matter continues moving radially outward from the path of the bullet until the head bursts from the accumulated pressure, which can reach 100 to 200 atmospheres. Brain matter is ejected out all available openings, the largest of which will usually be the exit would or an expanded version of it, with its size depending on how large the internal pressures became. As brain matter is ejected through the enlarged exit wound, it exerts a recoil force in the opposite direction, or backward. If this force is strong enough relative to other forces experienced by the head at that time (which is well after the hit), the head may usually move backward (the so-called “jet effect”). If the recoil force is small relative to those other forces (such as neuromuscular reactions), the head may move in some other direction, with its motion being only modified by the jet effect. Thus, we expect a bursting head to show at least two separate movements. The first must be in the direction of the bullet, the second probably opposite to it. (Specifics of any movements beyond the first are difficult or impossible to predict, however.). In fact, JFK’s head did move twice – first briefly forward (the “snap”), then backward (the “lurch”). The quick forward motions prove that the killing shot came from the rear. The rearward motion was likely some combination of jet effect and a neuromuscular stiffening of the back muscles, which together straightened him up and threw him backward. Could the rearward lurch have been the result of a second bullet, from the front as many conspiracy theorists have suggested? No, for several reasons: (1) There was only one set of wounds to the head, a tiny entrance wound in the rear and a larger exit wound on the right side/rear. (2) There is only one pattern of lead fragments in the head – a cone fanning out from the rear entrance wound to the side exit wound. (3) There was no second diffuse cloud of tissue and large fragments, as created by the first hit. (4) There was no damage to the left hemisphere of JFK’s brain, as would be required by a shot coming from the grassy knoll, which was really to JFK’s right rather than to his front. (5) The rearward lurch was an entirely different kind of movement from the forward snap. The lurch began in the right shoulder and arm and involved the head only later. It did not look at all like a snap. (6) Because the lurch involved the whole upper torso, it required more energy than the snap. Thus, JFK’s head was hit by only one bullet, from the rear.
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"Life is not a problem to be solved. It is a mystery to be lived".
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August 26, 2010, 03:32:25 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6860
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Don't worry about it, Brian. There will never be any proof of any conspiracy. There hasn't been any proof of a conspiracy so far and there never will be. This is simply because there was not a conspiracy. If there were a conspiracy, it would be out in the open by now. If there were a conspiracy, there would be overwhelming evidence by now. Overwhelming enough to the point that there would be no debate. This hasn't happened and it never will. There was no conspiracy. This only happened one way and it was the act of one lone nut. One lone nut who murdered two men, two men who deserved better.
Hey Bill, guess what? IT is out in the open for the vast majority of us, but folks like you and the media keep claiming it is NOT out in the open! NONE of your evidence (I wish you would learn it soon) shows LHO was guilty of shooting anyone on 11/22/63.
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August 26, 2010, 03:35:09 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6860
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Don't worry about it, Brian. There will never be any proof of any conspiracy. There hasn't been any proof of a conspiracy so far and there never will be. This is simply because there was not a conspiracy. If there were a conspiracy, it would be out in the open by now. If there were a conspiracy, there would be overwhelming evidence by now. Overwhelming enough to the point that there would be no debate. This hasn't happened and it never will. There was no conspiracy. This only happened one way and it was the act of one lone nut. One lone nut who murdered two men, two men who deserved better.
A small conspiracy would be difficult to detect, yet alone prove. I think what you say is partically correct. We can rule out a big conspiracy at this point. (What's a big conspiracy? I don't know... 20 or more people) Do you know how many people Sam Giancana had killed? Ditto Carlos Marcello? The list goes on with Mob bosses, but the vast majority of them are NEVER tried for the murders or of course found guilty! Why? Because they use INSULATING LEVELS BETWEEN THEM AND THE SHOOTERS so nothing can be tied back to them! This is why ALL the levels of conspiracy will never be known. NO one can say how big or small it would have been as it is impossible to ever know for sure, even with a full honest investigation.
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August 26, 2010, 07:11:18 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2897
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Like usual for a nut you cited a vague statement trying to show that he said the shots came from the GK. You ignored when he said he didn't know where the shots came from. Nothing vague about that. See how that works.
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August 26, 2010, 07:13:57 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 7879
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Yes Rob, you twist things. That's it, exactly. You took Zapruder's words "behind me" and tried to twist them to mean the "grassy knoll area". Please stop.
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"The TRUTH doesn't require anyone's belief." - Dale Myers
"The human mind craves a mystery more than it loves the truth." - Dan Rather
"Reason does not always appeal to unreasonable men." - John F. Kennedy
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August 26, 2010, 07:30:00 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6860
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Like usual for a nut you cited a vague statement trying to show that he said the shots came from the GK. You ignored when he said he didn't know where the shots came from. Nothing vague about that. See how that works. Here is what he said... Mr. LIEBELER - Did you have any impression as to the direction from which these shots came? Mr. ZAPRUDER - ***No, I also thought it came from back of me.*** Of course, you can't tell when something is in line it could come from anywhere, but being I was here and he was hit on this line and he was hit right in the head--I saw it right around here, so it looked like it came from here and it could come from there. Mr. LIEBELER - All right, as you stood here on the abutment and looked down into Elm Street, you saw the President hit on the right side of the head and ***you thought perhaps the shots had come from behind you? Mr. ZAPRUDER - Well, yes.*** Mr. LIEBELER - ***From the direction behind you? Mr. ZAPRUDER - Yes***, actually--I couldn't say what I thought at the moment, where they came from--after the impact of the tragedy was really what I saw and I started and I said--yelling, "They've killed him"--***I assumed that they came from there, because as the police started running back of me, it looked like it came from the back of me.*** Nothing vague here, he said he though the shots came from the back of him and that the police started running there! We all know from the films the first place the police RAN TO was the GK area! YOU are distorting the truth Brian. Why?
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August 26, 2010, 07:30:54 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6860
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Yes Rob, you twist things. That's it, exactly. You took Zapruder's words "behind me" and tried to twist them to mean the "grassy knoll area". Please stop. NO Bill, YOU are the twister! YOU tried to take his words of "behind me" and make them fit the TSBD! NO one is buying that one! Please stop!
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