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 July 06, 2010, 11:50:18 PM
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Jr. Member
Posts: 98
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I am in no way attacking good ol' Bob Harris. However, here is a video he made; and his main argument is that JFK's feet could not have possibly been that close to Connally's jumper seat, and that Dale Myers was stretching the truth to make the magic bullet fit. This video is a repost by someone else on youtube on his video which had been removed. Skip to 1:03 if you'd like to skip to the main point. <![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> Here is my photo where a roughly traced JFK and Connally behind the sides of the car that you can't see, and, unless I am just terribly out of proportion here (if so, please, do a better job then me and show me), voila! His feet were right behind the jumper seat. 
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July 10, 2010, 10:16:45 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 9143
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I know you were aware of the seat situation. Just not sure that everyone was aware that it wasn't
adjustable front to back, or didn't flip out of the way. So a 'southern gentlemen' didn't pull the seat forward.
You haven't figure out how to use the QUOTE button yet? I can't tell what you are talking about without context. If you mean Connally's jump seat you are dead wrong. It WAS adjustable and it DID pull forward and they DID have to flip it up to get Kennedy out. Further, one of the tiny lead fragments was found INSIDE the channel on which the jump seat slides forward. When you see remarks from Bob Harris please just ignore them. Don't compound the error by trying to debunk his nonsense. Anthony, Are you making the same idiotic claim that Harris did, that the jump seat sat on rails and could be adjusted back and forth? We know it could be flipped up, no one said it could not. However it was not adjustable nor on rails. Mike dear boy, Are you making the same idiotic claim that Dave did that there were no rails? One of the tiny lead fragments was found INSIDE the rail on Connally's jump seat. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login"2 on rug, 1 in seat hinge channel (jump seat)" I'll look for some photos of the limo for you. I have lots of them on my web site. Anthony, Yes the Hinge Channel. There is no rail. Hello! The seats simply lift up and tip back, they do not slide fore and aft.
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Marsh can not even comprehend a simple time stamp. How will he ever comprehend the evidence?
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July 10, 2010, 10:17:22 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6699
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The seat wasn't technically stationary, was a jump seat which flipped up.  I hardly think that JBC would have flipped it up and rode it like a teeter totter to give JFK more room, but I am sure you understood what I meant. It certainly did not slide forward and back. Large Dillard. Love field. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginThanks Robin. I don't have all my documents handy, but I don't remember them ever even discussing putting a locking mechanism on the jump seats even in the planning stage and proof drawings which I have. I don't see how Connally could push the seat fully forward and make it stay there. It is naturally going to slide back all the way. Unless someone knows some trick I missed.
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July 10, 2010, 10:19:37 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6699
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I know you were aware of the seat situation. Just not sure that everyone was aware that it wasn't
adjustable front to back, or didn't flip out of the way. So a 'southern gentlemen' didn't pull the seat forward.
You haven't figure out how to use the QUOTE button yet? I can't tell what you are talking about without context. If you mean Connally's jump seat you are dead wrong. It WAS adjustable and it DID pull forward and they DID have to flip it up to get Kennedy out. Further, one of the tiny lead fragments was found INSIDE the channel on which the jump seat slides forward. When you see remarks from Bob Harris please just ignore them. Don't compound the error by trying to debunk his nonsense. Anthony, Are you making the same idiotic claim that Harris did, that the jump seat sat on rails and could be adjusted back and forth? We know it could be flipped up, no one said it could not. However it was not adjustable nor on rails. Mike dear boy, Are you making the same idiotic claim that Dave did that there were no rails? One of the tiny lead fragments was found INSIDE the rail on Connally's jump seat. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login"2 on rug, 1 in seat hinge channel (jump seat)" I'll look for some photos of the limo for you. I have lots of them on my web site. Anthony, Yes the Hinge Channel. There is no rail. Hello! The seats simply lift up and tip back, they do not slide fore and aft. Are you blind or something? Robin just posted the Dillard photo which shows the two rails.
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« Last Edit: July 10, 2010, 10:21:41 PM by Anthony Marsh »
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July 10, 2010, 10:29:03 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 9143
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I know you were aware of the seat situation. Just not sure that everyone was aware that it wasn't
adjustable front to back, or didn't flip out of the way. So a 'southern gentlemen' didn't pull the seat forward.
You haven't figure out how to use the QUOTE button yet? I can't tell what you are talking about without context. If you mean Connally's jump seat you are dead wrong. It WAS adjustable and it DID pull forward and they DID have to flip it up to get Kennedy out. Further, one of the tiny lead fragments was found INSIDE the channel on which the jump seat slides forward. When you see remarks from Bob Harris please just ignore them. Don't compound the error by trying to debunk his nonsense. Anthony, Are you making the same idiotic claim that Harris did, that the jump seat sat on rails and could be adjusted back and forth? We know it could be flipped up, no one said it could not. However it was not adjustable nor on rails. Mike dear boy, Are you making the same idiotic claim that Dave did that there were no rails? One of the tiny lead fragments was found INSIDE the rail on Connally's jump seat. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login"2 on rug, 1 in seat hinge channel (jump seat)" I'll look for some photos of the limo for you. I have lots of them on my web site. Anthony, Yes the Hinge Channel. There is no rail. Hello! The seats simply lift up and tip back, they do not slide fore and aft. Are you blind or something? Robin just posted the Dillard photo which shows the two rails. Those are not rails, they are channels that the hinge recesses into, this can be seen quite clearly. The seats do not slide at all, they simply fold away.  To deploy they are simply lifted and and tipped into place, then the back of the seat lifts to access it. To Stow, they fold the seat down, and lift it forward to stow it. It does not slide at all. If you would care to you can consult the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn.
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July 10, 2010, 10:45:54 PM
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Jr. Member
Posts: 98
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It does not slide at all.
If you would care to you can consult the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn.
BANG!  
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July 13, 2010, 03:36:21 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 1085
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I hope its not a hide-a-Bed. The back of JFK's seat, to the back of JBC seat Looks like 29" in the H&E Drawing.  Is it meant to be a technical drawing of the specifications of the limo, the draughtsman needs to take it back to the drawing board. Just looking at interior measurements, and the numbers don't add up. If it's a piece drawn up at the behest of the WC who were pushing the SBT, well, you can see why people may have a problem with it.  Cheers.
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July 13, 2010, 03:39:34 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 1085
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More amateur analysis. You overlook the fact that JFK was resting his elbow on the side of the car so his arm is not fully extended.
And the fact that the exit from the throat wound is about 6-7 inches forward of the back of the seat which was slanted back. Out at Love Field JFK was leaning back and resting. When he was shot he was sitting up and waving to the crowds. Add another 8 or 9 inches to his arm and it would touch Connally's back.
If you have not read the HSCA studies then you need to. Then if you can refute anything specific in their analysis let's see you quote where you think they are wrong and upload documentation to prove your points. Otherwise you are just guessing, not researching.
I'll have to look into this further, and come back with either evidence that supports your claim or evidence that utterly destroys it. It'll probably be the latter, as your opening remark has irked me. Cheers.
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July 13, 2010, 04:17:56 PM
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Full Member
Posts: 193
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Sorry for the claim that it didn't flip out of the way Anthony. Of course the seat flips out of the way, thats its function. I am also going back to school to learn how to use the Quotes feature as you suggest, from one  to another. The basis was to show that the seat did not have an adjustment ability. The channel you are refering to allows the hinge to fold back and sit down into it. My Southern Gentleman comment was something I was sure Mike would recognize from a previous post about the seat.
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July 20, 2010, 05:20:31 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 1085
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More amateur analysis. You overlook the fact that JFK was resting his elbow on the side of the car so his arm is not fully extended. Yes, when looking at legs, I overlook thighs, and looking at arms, I overlook elbows. Your assumptions as to what it is I am overlooking are absurd. And the fact that the exit from the throat wound is about 6-7 inches forward of the back of the seat which was slanted back. So where exactly is the slanting seat represented in the drawing? Is it part of the area where JFK is seated? Is it the 6.5 inch block behind JFK taking into account the back slope of the seat and head rest? With drawings this ambiguous, how you can posit anything reliably is really a mystery.  I've actually taken the 6.5 inch as a measurement of the back seat head rest, and when applied to this photo...  ..the distance between back and jump seat is almost 40 inches. I know that the interior was rebuilt, and a couple of inches were added between jump and back seat but still, it seems a long way off from the 29 inches in the diagram. Out at Love Field JFK was leaning back and resting. When he was shot he was sitting up and waving to the crowds. So he was sitting up and leaning forward in his seat was he? The bunched jacket occurring coz he had his back up against the seat. The towner film taken just after the turn, showing JFK moving back and to the right as he settles back into the seat. <![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> Add another 8 or 9 inches to his arm and it would touch Connally's back. Excellent point. If you have not read the HSCA studies then you need to. Then if you can refute anything specific in their analysis let's see you quote where you think they are wrong and upload documentation to prove your points. Otherwise you are just guessing, not researching.
I don’t know if they are wrong, as I haven’t looked at them. What I do know is using my own judgement, your theory, or their theory of there only being 24 inches between JFK’s neck and connallys back looks short. As for researching, I look at the photos, much like everyone else. 
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July 20, 2010, 07:02:37 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6699
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I hope its not a hide-a-Bed. The back of JFK's seat, to the back of JBC seat Looks like 29" in the H&E Drawing. Is it meant to be a technical drawing of the specifications of the limo, the draughtsman needs to take it back to the drawing board. Just looking at interior measurements, and the numbers don't add up. If it's a piece drawn up at the behest of the WC who were pushing the SBT, well, you can see why people may have a problem with it. Cheers. This is old news. The SBT was not even invented then. Specter did not think it up until late April 1964. The technical drawing has errors, but we have discussed them before and resolved them. See my limo drawing which is accurate to the scale of 1/2". Likewise the HSCA was not limited to the known WC errors and Canning et al made their own calculations. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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July 23, 2010, 12:18:05 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 1085
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See my limo drawing which is accurate to the scale of 1/2". Likewise the HSCA was not limited to the known WC errors and Canning et al made their own calculations. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginCheers Anthony.
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