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 May 13, 2010, 06:15:00 PM
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Super Member
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> That's fun, but it is a straw man argument. That little clip does not tell the whole story. Watch the whole show. As usual the Mythbusters can't debunk the original theory so they create a straw man argument. The theory was never about an ice bullet shot to the head. And it was not invented by us wacky conspiracy theorists. It was proposed by the autopsy doctors that night to explain why they couldn't probe the back wound. The real reason why they couldn't figure out the back wound is because they were incompetent. But the FBI agent called the lab and asked if an ice bullet is even possible. That is the BACK wound, not the head wound. Many years later the wacky conspiracy theorists proposed that a flechette was fired from an umbrella gun into JFK's throat. Supposedly it would carry a nerve agent to paralyze the victim. Well, it turns out that the CIA already had a handgun to do that to guard dogs which they showed in a Senate hearing. No one proposed a flechette or ice bullet for the head wound. Some conspiracy theorists propose an explosive bullet, like the one Hinckley shot James Brady with. Dr. McCarthy tested a glycerin bullet. The mythbusters tests verify that a small gas propelled weapon could fire a small pellet which would penetrate the skin and go a few inches into a body. Not lethal by itself. Possibly carrying a poison, as in the Markoff case. They didn't bust anything. They confirmed.
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May 14, 2010, 01:19:57 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 555
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I love Mythbusters
Awesome show
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"Pictures don't lie-unless they are made to" Harold Weisberg 1966
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May 14, 2010, 01:23:54 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 9143
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I love Mythbusters
Awesome show
Dean Me too!
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May 15, 2010, 10:38:51 AM
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Posts: 4
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The theory was never about an ice bullet shot to the head. And it was not invented by us wacky conspiracy theorists. The Umbrella Rifle hypothesis, may have been a disinfo job designed to muddy the waters and create the impression that dissenters from Warren were loonies. The same tactic was used in 911 with the 'No Planes' idea and the 'Satellite Energy Beams' nonsense.
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May 17, 2010, 08:21:53 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2353
Germany
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I feel that if TUM fired his umbrella as a weapon, it might have been an ice projectile of some sort or a dissolving fletchette....either of which carried a substance used to paralyze and immobilize the president. This would have been a frontal shot to the throat area   How long would it take for any paralyzing substance fired by a dart to bring about an effect ?
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"ich bin ein Berliner" As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Login"There's none so blind as those who will not see."
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May 17, 2010, 09:44:30 AM
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Super Member
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I feel that if TUM fired his umbrella as a weapon, it might have been an ice projectile of some sort or a dissolving fletchette....either of which carried a substance used to paralyze and immobilize the president. This would have been a frontal shot to the throat area How long would it take for any paralyzing substance fired by a dart to bring about an effect ? Gerry when I read about this sometime ago, I believe it was like 2 seconds. Of course this was developed to silence guard dogs. I guess someone must have missed the fact that a guard dog would have yelped when shot with the dart! At any rate, I myself have never given this a second thought. It just seems to ridiculous.
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May 17, 2010, 11:30:48 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2353
Germany
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I feel that if TUM fired his umbrella as a weapon, it might have been an ice projectile of some sort or a dissolving fletchette....either of which carried a substance used to paralyze and immobilize the president. This would have been a frontal shot to the throat area How long would it take for any paralyzing substance fired by a dart to bring about an effect ? Gerry when I read about this sometime ago, I believe it was like 2 seconds. Of course this was developed to silence guard dogs. I guess someone must have missed the fact that a guard dog would have yelped when shot with the dart! At any rate, I myself have never given this a second thought. It just seems to ridiculous. Mike, thanks for the info. Mike. If a poisonous dart has been fired at JFK why only when the motorcade has long passed the TSBD ? Wouldn't it be more logical to paralyze JFK shortly before he reaches the Kill Zone near the TSBD so that it would be easier for the medium shot Oswald to hit the target ? Here is what i found at Wikipedia about reaction times of agents: Agents that act on the nervous system can paralyze in seconds or less, and include both biologically derived neurotoxins and so-called nerve gases, which may be synthesized for warfare or industry.well, it is not very telling " In seconds or less"  If Umbrella Man fired a dart JFK would probably been near the underpass or under it till the poison/agent would have taken effect. I think a dart fired from an umbrella at a moving target from abot 3 m distance would still be too inacurate. I have a problem imagining that. Not to mention that some doctors at Parkland or Bethesda would have probably found residue of the agent in his blood.
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May 17, 2010, 11:54:15 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 9143
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I feel that if TUM fired his umbrella as a weapon, it might have been an ice projectile of some sort or a dissolving fletchette....either of which carried a substance used to paralyze and immobilize the president. This would have been a frontal shot to the throat area How long would it take for any paralyzing substance fired by a dart to bring about an effect ? Gerry when I read about this sometime ago, I believe it was like 2 seconds. Of course this was developed to silence guard dogs. I guess someone must have missed the fact that a guard dog would have yelped when shot with the dart! At any rate, I myself have never given this a second thought. It just seems to ridiculous. Mike, thanks for the info. Mike. If a poisonous dart has been fired at JFK why only when the motorcade has long passed the TSBD ? Wouldn't it be more logical to paralyze JFK shortly before he reaches the Kill Zone near the TSBD so that it would be easier for the medium shot Oswald to hit the target ? Here is what i found at Wikipedia about reaction times of agents: Agents that act on the nervous system can paralyze in seconds or less, and include both biologically derived neurotoxins and so-called nerve gases, which may be synthesized for warfare or industry.well, it is not very telling " In seconds or less" If Umbrella Man fired a dart JFK would probably been near the underpass or under it till the poison/agent would have taken effect. I think a dart fired from an umbrella at a moving target from abot 3 m distance would still be too inacurate. I have a problem imagining that. Not to mention that some doctors at Parkland or Bethesda would have probably found residue of the agent in his blood. Gerry, And the biggest of all questions. What would the assassins have done if the paralytic would have just caused JFK to lose all muscular control (as paralytics do) and simply slump to the floor board unexposed for a shot? The whole things just seems to silly to me.
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May 17, 2010, 05:56:59 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 6699
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I feel that if TUM fired his umbrella as a weapon, it might have been an ice projectile of some sort or a dissolving fletchette....either of which carried a substance used to paralyze and immobilize the president. This would have been a frontal shot to the throat area How long would it take for any paralyzing substance fired by a dart to bring about an effect ? Gerry when I read about this sometime ago, I believe it was like 2 seconds. Of course this was developed to silence guard dogs. I guess someone must have missed the fact that a guard dog would have yelped when shot with the dart! At any rate, I myself have never given this a second thought. It just seems to ridiculous. Mike, thanks for the info. Mike. If a poisonous dart has been fired at JFK why only when the motorcade has long passed the TSBD ? Wouldn't it be more logical to paralyze JFK shortly before he reaches the Kill Zone near the TSBD so that it would be easier for the medium shot Oswald to hit the target ? Here is what i found at Wikipedia about reaction times of agents: Agents that act on the nervous system can paralyze in seconds or less, and include both biologically derived neurotoxins and so-called nerve gases, which may be synthesized for warfare or industry.well, it is not very telling " In seconds or less" If Umbrella Man fired a dart JFK would probably been near the underpass or under it till the poison/agent would have taken effect. I think a dart fired from an umbrella at a moving target from abot 3 m distance would still be too inacurate. I have a problem imagining that. Not to mention that some doctors at Parkland or Bethesda would have probably found residue of the agent in his blood. The Umbrella Man theory is ridiculous, but you have to stick to the facts when debunking it. The theory was not to poison JFK. The theory was to paralyze JFK to keep him upright and an easier target. But he was already stuck upright by his back brace. He was not long past the TSBD. He was still at the top of Elm and the limo was going slowly. If such a weapon was actually developed by the CIA, then it could work fine. The CIA testified that its dart gun was accurate out to 50 meter. And be barely perceived. And neutralize the target within a couple of seconds. Plenty of time before the head shot. The original theory was a flechette, which certainly would have gotten in the way of inserting the trache tube. SO even a Liftonite theory of body alteration to remove the flechette would not explain the Parkland doctors not seeing it
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