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 May 10, 2010, 07:36:47 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2203
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They forgot to shoot at the right temple.
Hit your trunk with your hand >> the trunk doesn't move.
Hit your head with your hand >> the head moves.
So back-and-to-the-left not busted!
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chase the truth and the devil will overtake you
politics is a conspiracy by nature
listen to jazz
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May 10, 2010, 08:10:46 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 2353
Germany
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it's all a matter of height of the centre of gravity, is it ? Is that what the video says ? if you shoot someone from 10 feet distance into his right kneecap would he fall forward, backwards or simply sink down on the very spot. and if you soot someone inbetween the eyes would he fall backwards, forward or just drop ? and what if that person is sitting and is wearing a brace ? and what if the shot is fired from an elevated position ? and what if the the person is sitting in an moving vehicle traveling ~ 4-6 mph angular past the shooter ? and what if the bullet fragments upon impact ? and what if two shots hit the person almost simultaneously, one from the back from an elevated position and one from the right side also from a higher position, to what side would the body tip ? and what if , etc... 
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"ich bin ein Berliner" As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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May 11, 2010, 02:05:06 AM
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Super Member
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The subject line of this thread is a misnomer. This Mythbusters episode had nothing to do with the JFK assassination. They never mentioned "back and to the left." They were taking on the Hollywood movies, especially Westerns, which would overdramatize someone being shot by showing him flying backwards. But in the end the actual tests proved that the impact of a bullet CAN thrust a body backwards. The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy.
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May 11, 2010, 06:07:39 AM
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Super Member
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I've seen that before Mark, but thank you. This Mythbusters episode had nothing to do with the JFK assassination.
They never mentioned "back and to the left."
Yes, thats it Anthony. What a Carcano bullet does to a body can we see in Zapruder frame 224 on Connally. Just the jacket flips. best Martin
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Firework As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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Register or LoginInsipired by the Movie "Invictus" and Nelson Mandela. What a poem! As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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May 12, 2010, 03:47:39 AM
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Super Member
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy. Where do they claim that? There are many reasons to believe from behind could cause JFK to react actually like he did. If its the jet effect, it would take matter being pushed out of the side of JFK's head to make it snap in the oppisite direction. If it the muscle spasms because the brain was detroyed, it wouldn't happen right awy. It would make perfect sense that the head would go foward very quickly and then back. The head going foward very qucikly, doesn't work against anything that the LN believe.
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What is silly is thinking that two turns that reduced the speed of the car to 8-11 m.p.h. is no big deal when motorcades are suppose to keep a 44 m.p.h. speed..R Caprio
LHO had poor hand-eye coordination and proof of this is seen in the fact he couldn't drive an automobile-- R Caprio
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May 12, 2010, 05:41:52 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6699
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy. Where do they claim that? There are many reasons to believe from behind could cause JFK to react actually like he did. If its the jet effect, it would take matter being pushed out of the side of JFK's head to make it snap in the oppisite direction. If it the muscle spasms because the brain was detroyed, it wouldn't happen right awy. It would make perfect sense that the head would go foward very quickly and then back. The head going foward very qucikly, doesn't work against anything that the LN believe. They claim it all the time. They got it from the Itek report and believe it. The jet effect is a cute idea, but the actual conditions they posit would not cause the head to go back and to the left. The reaction is in the direction OPPOSITE the escaping debris, which we can see streaming up out of the top of the head. So a real jet effect would propel the head in the OPPOSITE direction, downward. Some type of neurospasm is possible, but I think it is more likely the RELEASE of built up tension like releasing a spring. JFK was struggling against the Ace bandages and the corset to lean forward. When the bullet cut off his ability to keep leaning forward he sprung backwards.
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May 12, 2010, 06:05:23 AM
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Super Member
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The subject line of this thread is a misnomer. This Mythbusters episode had nothing to do with the JFK assassination. They never mentioned "back and to the left." They were taking on the Hollywood movies, especially Westerns, which would overdramatize someone being shot by showing him flying backwards. But in the end the actual tests proved that the impact of a bullet CAN thrust a body backwards. The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy. There is a huge difference between moving a body, and violently throwing a body. Something the Ct crowd seems to miss. Of course a projectile can move a body. This movement is not going to be significant in a transiting shot where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. This is precisely why the violent back and to the left can not be contributed to a frontal shot. A transiting bullet would not have that kind of impact energy. Additionally this is also why the slight forward movement can be attributed to a bullet, as it is exactly the sort of subtle movement one would see. When we add the blood spatter evidence to all this it becomes clear there was no shot from the front.
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Marsh can not even comprehend a simple time stamp. How will he ever comprehend the evidence?
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May 13, 2010, 07:25:59 AM
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Super Member
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The subject line of this thread is a misnomer. This Mythbusters episode had nothing to do with the JFK assassination. They never mentioned "back and to the left." They were taking on the Hollywood movies, especially Westerns, which would overdramatize someone being shot by showing him flying backwards. But in the end the actual tests proved that the impact of a bullet CAN thrust a body backwards. The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy. There is a huge difference between moving a body, and violently throwing a body. Something the Ct crowd seems to miss. Of course a projectile can move a body. This movement is not going to be significant in a transiting shot where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. This is precisely why the violent back and to the left can not be contributed to a frontal shot. A transiting bullet would not have that kind of impact energy. Additionally this is also why the slight forward movement can be attributed to a bullet, as it is exactly the sort of subtle movement one would see. When we add the blood spatter evidence to all this it becomes clear there was no shot from the front. So, you think that 2.3 inches in 35 ms is not significant? And show me this wounding where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. We are talking about the head wound and no one has suggested .1-.3% loss. You just pulled those numbers out of your ass. Subtle? 2.3 inches in 35 ms? The blood spatter evidence does not rule out a shot from the front. In fact a real blood spatter expert thinks it proves a shot from the front. If the shot came from behind why is the whole windshield not covered with blood. Why are the onlu two blood drops from Connally and none from Kennedy?
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May 13, 2010, 06:33:41 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 9143
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The subject line of this thread is a misnomer. This Mythbusters episode had nothing to do with the JFK assassination. They never mentioned "back and to the left." They were taking on the Hollywood movies, especially Westerns, which would overdramatize someone being shot by showing him flying backwards. But in the end the actual tests proved that the impact of a bullet CAN thrust a body backwards. The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy. There is a huge difference between moving a body, and violently throwing a body. Something the Ct crowd seems to miss. Of course a projectile can move a body. This movement is not going to be significant in a transiting shot where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. This is precisely why the violent back and to the left can not be contributed to a frontal shot. A transiting bullet would not have that kind of impact energy. Additionally this is also why the slight forward movement can be attributed to a bullet, as it is exactly the sort of subtle movement one would see. When we add the blood spatter evidence to all this it becomes clear there was no shot from the front. So, you think that 2.3 inches in 35 ms is not significant? And show me this wounding where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. We are talking about the head wound and no one has suggested .1-.3% loss. You just pulled those numbers out of your ass. Subtle? 2.3 inches in 35 ms? The blood spatter evidence does not rule out a shot from the front. In fact a real blood spatter expert thinks it proves a shot from the front. If the shot came from behind why is the whole windshield not covered with blood. Why are the onlu two blood drops from Connally and none from Kennedy? If the shot came from the front, why is there blood on the OUTSIDE of the windshield? Do a little research Anthony and then come back and tell me that .1 to .3% is not correct. You have proven time and again your lack of ballistic knowledge, like that crap telling me police dont use frangible bullets. I assume you are talking about Sherry? How funny that her and I spent hours looking for blood analysis of a front shot with no success. Who do you think you are kidding? 2.3" of movement in 35 ms is what you are relating to the forward head movement? That is perfectly consistent with the shot entering the rear. I bet I can bump you in the back of the head, and move your head 2.3" in 35ms.
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May 14, 2010, 12:10:25 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 6699
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The subject line of this thread is a misnomer. This Mythbusters episode had nothing to do with the JFK assassination. They never mentioned "back and to the left." They were taking on the Hollywood movies, especially Westerns, which would overdramatize someone being shot by showing him flying backwards. But in the end the actual tests proved that the impact of a bullet CAN thrust a body backwards. The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy. There is a huge difference between moving a body, and violently throwing a body. Something the Ct crowd seems to miss. Of course a projectile can move a body. This movement is not going to be significant in a transiting shot where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. This is precisely why the violent back and to the left can not be contributed to a frontal shot. A transiting bullet would not have that kind of impact energy. Additionally this is also why the slight forward movement can be attributed to a bullet, as it is exactly the sort of subtle movement one would see. When we add the blood spatter evidence to all this it becomes clear there was no shot from the front. So, you think that 2.3 inches in 35 ms is not significant? And show me this wounding where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. We are talking about the head wound and no one has suggested .1-.3% loss. You just pulled those numbers out of your ass. Subtle? 2.3 inches in 35 ms? The blood spatter evidence does not rule out a shot from the front. In fact a real blood spatter expert thinks it proves a shot from the front. If the shot came from behind why is the whole windshield not covered with blood. Why are the onlu two blood drops from Connally and none from Kennedy? If the shot came from the front, why is there blood on the OUTSIDE of the windshield? Do a little research Anthony and then come back and tell me that .1 to .3% is not correct. You have proven time and again your lack of ballistic knowledge, like that crap telling me police dont use frangible bullets. I assume you are talking about Sherry? How funny that her and I spent hours looking for blood analysis of a front shot with no success. Who do you think you are kidding? 2.3" of movement in 35 ms is what you are relating to the forward head movement? That is perfectly consistent with the shot entering the rear. I bet I can bump you in the back of the head, and move your head 2.3" in 35ms. Show me and prove that there is blood on the outside of the windshield. There was blood all over because the top of the head opened up and debris flew upwards and fell back down, but was also dispersed by the wind. I asked you to back up your .1 to .3% loss of energy and you can't. You just made it up.
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May 14, 2010, 12:33:37 AM
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Super Member
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<![CDATA[As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
<a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=register">Register</a> or <a href="http://www.jfkassassinationforum.com/index.php?action=login">Login</a>]]> The subject line of this thread is a misnomer. This Mythbusters episode had nothing to do with the JFK assassination. They never mentioned "back and to the left." They were taking on the Hollywood movies, especially Westerns, which would overdramatize someone being shot by showing him flying backwards. But in the end the actual tests proved that the impact of a bullet CAN thrust a body backwards. The WC defenders like to claim that the impact of a bullet can not move a person's body in any direction. But they themselves claim that a Mannlicher-Carcano bullet thrust JFK's head forward 2.3 inches in less than half a Zapruder frame. It's called hypocrisy. There is a huge difference between moving a body, and violently throwing a body. Something the Ct crowd seems to miss. Of course a projectile can move a body. This movement is not going to be significant in a transiting shot where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. This is precisely why the violent back and to the left can not be contributed to a frontal shot. A transiting bullet would not have that kind of impact energy. Additionally this is also why the slight forward movement can be attributed to a bullet, as it is exactly the sort of subtle movement one would see. When we add the blood spatter evidence to all this it becomes clear there was no shot from the front. So, you think that 2.3 inches in 35 ms is not significant? And show me this wounding where only .1-.3% of the kinetic energy is transferred to the target. We are talking about the head wound and no one has suggested .1-.3% loss. You just pulled those numbers out of your ass. Subtle? 2.3 inches in 35 ms? The blood spatter evidence does not rule out a shot from the front. In fact a real blood spatter expert thinks it proves a shot from the front. If the shot came from behind why is the whole windshield not covered with blood. Why are the onlu two blood drops from Connally and none from Kennedy? If the shot came from the front, why is there blood on the OUTSIDE of the windshield? Do a little research Anthony and then come back and tell me that .1 to .3% is not correct. You have proven time and again your lack of ballistic knowledge, like that crap telling me police dont use frangible bullets. I assume you are talking about Sherry? How funny that her and I spent hours looking for blood analysis of a front shot with no success. Who do you think you are kidding? 2.3" of movement in 35 ms is what you are relating to the forward head movement? That is perfectly consistent with the shot entering the rear. I bet I can bump you in the back of the head, and move your head 2.3" in 35ms. Show me and prove that there is blood on the outside of the windshield. There was blood all over because the top of the head opened up and debris flew upwards and fell back down, but was also dispersed by the wind. I asked you to back up your .1 to .3% loss of energy and you can't. You just made it up. I don't make things up. You have already proven you know little of ballistics, so please if you can dispute my .1-.3% do so. I think you will find my transfer range conservative. I have already done the work, but if you wish to challenge me I will give you the bullet specs. Sectional Density is :.328 Ballistic Coefficient is:.283 and velocity is 2165 FPS. All you have to do is calculate how much energy the bullet would lose, and this tells you how much energy the body absorbed by way of momentum. A hint would be that it requires 30 Ft-Lbs of energy for the bullet to transit 1" of flesh and bone. Now had one done much research at all one would find that Frazier tells us: Mr. FRAZIER - There were blood and particles of flesh scattered all over the hood, the windshield, in the front seat and all over the rear floor rugs, the jump seats, and over the rear seat, and down both sides of the side rails or tops of the doors of the car. I do note no mention of the trunk. Yet in the Clay Shaw Trial Frazier tells us: "Q: Now, Mr. Frazier, other than the windshield of the automobile, could you tell us what particular examinations were conducted with other parts of this vehicle? A: Yes, sir. The first examination which was made was of the exterior portions of the vehicle. We examined the outer surface of the hood, the grille area, both front fender areas, all the metal work on the outside of the automobile. The examination was for two purposes, to determine whether there were any bullets or other projectile impact areas on the outside of the car and also to note the presence of the foreign material deposited on it. We found blood and tissue all over the outside areas of the vehicle from the hood ornament, over the complete area of the hood, on the outside of the windshield, also on the inside surface of the windshield, and all over the entire exterior portion of the car, that is, the side rails down both sides of the car, and of course considerable quantities inside the car and on the trunk lid area. We found however, no bullet holes or projectile marks. Here he does mention the trunk. I do agree the wind would have played a part. There is still to this day, not a credible shred of evidence of a shot from the front. Not on film, not in the medical, and not in the ballistics. I would also note that only forward spatter traveling in the direction of the bullet would have had the energy to advance in the wind and moving limo conditions to reach the HOOD ORNAMENT!
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« Last Edit: May 14, 2010, 12:53:45 AM by Mike Williams »
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