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 February 12, 2010, 08:50:18 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 372
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I found this while looking for info on the W.C. copy.
Dispute over completeness
The Zapruder film has often been seen as a "complete record of the Kennedy assassination". This view is, however, challenged by Max Holland, author of The Kennedy Assassination Tapes, and the professional photographer Johann Rush in a joint editorial piece published by The New York Times on November 22, 2007.[20] Holland and Rush point out that Zapruder temporarily stopped filming at frame 132, when only police motorcycles were visible. When he resumed filming, frame 133 already shows the presidential motorcade in view. This pause could have great significance for the interpretation of the assassination, Holland and Rush suggest. One of the sources of controversy with the Warren Report has been its difficulty in satisfactorily accounting for the sequencing of the assassination. A specific mystery concerns what happened to the one of Oswald's three shots that missed (and how he came to miss at what was assumed to be close range). Holland and Rush argue that the break in the Zapruder film might conceal a first shot earlier than analysts have hitherto assumed, and point out that in this case a horizontal traffic mast would temporarily have obstructed Oswald's view of his target. In the authors' words, "The film, we realize, does not depict an assassination about to commence. It shows one that had already started."
The evidence offered by Holland and Rush to support their theory was effectively challenged in a series of 2007–08 articles[21] by computer animator Dale K. Myers and assassination researcher Todd W. Vaughan which uphold the prevailing belief that Zapruder's film captured the entire shooting sequence.
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February 12, 2010, 08:53:15 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 372
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this was posted on the other page, in case you missed it. ( I'm looking for more. Found something interesting in the last frames on the Zfilm, waiting to figure it out before I post, as I'm afraid of Paul. Look at the frame by frame prints on the page: As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginYou will notice the film starts to roll at least 18 frames before the limousine reached Elm street. ( I can explain if need be.) Than look at the frames up to 132 on the above page. Now look at frame 133, and you will notice the limousine comes out of nowhere. So now, if the film started at least 18 frames before the limousine reached Elm street, and moved the distance of 132 frames in a flash, ( one frame.) than 18 + 132 = 150 frames are missing from the Zapruder film. Now if you add 150 frames to 132 you will see, that frames 133 to 282 are missing. About 8 seconds is missing. Now looking at the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume VII, Page 573 of 604, you will read. " Zapruder - This is were they came from Houston street, and turned here ? " " Liebeler - Yes and they are going down Elm street now ? " " Zapruder - Yes this is before - This shouldn't be there, the shot wasn't fired, was it ? You can't tell from here ? " "Liebeler - No response. " Link = As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginAnd as your looking at the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume VII, anyway, you may as well look on the same page, to read this. " Zapruder - Yes there were signs and trees and somehow --- I told them I was going to get the full view and must have." Who did he tell he was going to get the full view. I find this is an interesting statement. Do any of you have any idea's here ? ------------------------- « Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 06:14:52 AM by William Mitchell »
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February 12, 2010, 11:02:50 PM
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Super Member
Posts: 562
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this was posted on the other page, in case you missed it. ( I'm looking for more. Found something interesting in the last frames on the Zfilm, waiting to figure it out before I post, as I'm afraid of Paul. Look at the frame by frame prints on the page: As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginYou will notice the film starts to roll at least 18 frames before the limousine reached Elm street. ( I can explain if need be.) Than look at the frames up to 132 on the above page. Now look at frame 133, and you will notice the limousine comes out of nowhere. So now, if the film started at least 18 frames before the limousine reached Elm street, and moved the distance of 132 frames in a flash, ( one frame.) than 18 + 132 = 150 frames are missing from the Zapruder film. Now if you add 150 frames to 132 you will see, that frames 133 to 282 are missing. About 8 seconds is missing. Now looking at the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume VII, Page 573 of 604, you will read. " Zapruder - This is were they came from Houston street, and turned here ? " " Liebeler - Yes and they are going down Elm street now ? " " Zapruder - Yes this is before - This shouldn't be there, the shot wasn't fired, was it ? You can't tell from here ? " "Liebeler - No response. " Link = As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginAnd as your looking at the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume VII, anyway, you may as well look on the same page, to read this. " Zapruder - Yes there were signs and trees and somehow --- I told them I was going to get the full view and must have." Who did he tell he was going to get the full view. I find this is an interesting statement. Do any of you have any idea's here ? ------------------------- « Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 06:14:52 AM by William Mitchell » Hi William, Very interesting, but you lost me with the part about the 18 frames at the beginning, please explain. I might be able to give you some support in reference to timing issues. chris
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February 13, 2010, 01:04:37 AM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 372
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this was posted on the other page, in case you missed it. ( I'm looking for more. Found something interesting in the last frames on the Zfilm, waiting to figure it out before I post, as I'm afraid of Paul. Look at the frame by frame prints on the page: As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginYou will notice the film starts to roll at least 18 frames before the limousine reached Elm street. ( I can explain if need be.) Than look at the frames up to 132 on the above page. Now look at frame 133, and you will notice the limousine comes out of nowhere. So now, if the film started at least 18 frames before the limousine reached Elm street, and moved the distance of 132 frames in a flash, ( one frame.) than 18 + 132 = 150 frames are missing from the Zapruder film. Now if you add 150 frames to 132 you will see, that frames 133 to 282 are missing. About 8 seconds is missing. Now looking at the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume VII, Page 573 of 604, you will read. " Zapruder - This is were they came from Houston street, and turned here ? " " Liebeler - Yes and they are going down Elm street now ? " " Zapruder - Yes this is before - This shouldn't be there, the shot wasn't fired, was it ? You can't tell from here ? " "Liebeler - No response. " Link = As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or LoginAnd as your looking at the Warren Commission Hearings, Volume VII, anyway, you may as well look on the same page, to read this. " Zapruder - Yes there were signs and trees and somehow --- I told them I was going to get the full view and must have." Who did he tell he was going to get the full view. I find this is an interesting statement. Do any of you have any idea's here ? ------------------------- « Last Edit: February 10, 2010, 06:14:52 AM by William Mitchell » Hi William, Very interesting, but you lost me with the part about the 18 frames at the beginning, please explain. I might be able to give you some support in reference to timing issues. chris Sure, if you look at the first frame in the Zfilm, you will see the side tank of the second bike. Now if you look at frame 18 ( 1 sec.) you will see the same bike. look at the distance the bike traveled in 18 frames. Now go back to the first frame, and look how far you can see behind the bike, through the legs of the onlookers. It's at least the same distance the that bike moved between frame 1 and frame 18. ( A bit more would be my guess.)
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February 13, 2010, 01:22:56 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 562
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Would this be the correct designation for cycles in frame 1? As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Loginchris
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February 13, 2010, 03:23:17 AM
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Newbie
Posts: 49
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There's a few things that i've noticed in the Costella version, wouldn't mind some sensible opinions if anyone fancies it? Just say the word, and i'll roll them out.
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'Jumping out of trees that tall is not an easy task, regardless of age (it’s easier to just fall out of it)' --- Keller Jackson
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February 13, 2010, 04:46:02 AM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 372
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Would this be the correct designation for cycles in frame 1? As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
Register or Loginchris Yes that is the frame. here is a link to more frames if you need it. As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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February 13, 2010, 04:58:36 AM
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Newbie
Posts: 49
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Z133......
Z134 Frame moves up slightly, signpost pole straps seem to tilt right. Colour deeper. White line next to limo seems sharper than previous frame, even although the whole frame is more blurred. A curved shadow appears near the Willis' feet, whose body seems to shrink to almost half it's size, whilst the limo widens with the appearance of being a double image.
Z135 The limo seems to jolt into the frame, which is now instantly sharper in focus. Sign posts dissappear along with curved shadow at the Willis' feet. Missing frame(s) between 134/5?
Are the colour discrepancies camera/ film related? Not a film expert, so not really sure.
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February 14, 2010, 02:46:25 AM
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Super Member
Posts: 2131
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William
Thanks for posting the Zframes!...
Hi Jay In case you don't have this site bookmarked, you might want to. This is the only other site besides the "Costella" Zapruder frames William provided a link to that has all the Zapruder frames, and also the Nix and Muchmore frames too. Just look for the "Index" link at the bottom of the page. Rick As a guest, you are not allowed to view links.
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« Last Edit: February 14, 2010, 02:48:15 AM by Rick Needham »
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But peace does not rest in the charters and covenants alone. It lies in the hearts and minds of all people- John F. Kennedy
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February 17, 2010, 10:29:50 PM
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Sr. Member
Posts: 341
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There's a girl in a white top with a red skirt running behind the car but looking back. LBJ fan perhaps?
I hope Chris Davidson don't mind me posting this but have a close look at what he spotted happening to the girls head. Don't comment & spoil it, just try & understand what's happening for yourselves. 
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